Cub/Webelo Parents Burned out by the 5th grade.

[Stosh]

If the Scout program is boy-led, patrol-method, so what if the parents are burned out? Maybe then they won't be tempted to interfere in the program. As long as the boys don't burn out, I find no problem with less involvement by the parents in the troop, it might even be a good thing.

 

Stosh

[GKlose]

Stosh, my take on what's been written so far is that since parents are burned out, they are discouraging their sons from continuing. I've seen it happen in our town. I'm also saddened -- these adolescents are missing out on the best part of the scouting program, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Guy

[Stosh]

Mine too, but if these same parents are pushing their boys into other programs such as sports, there's not much BSA can do about it. For the most part these parents are not as much burned out as they have other plans for their boys and they are using burn-out as an excuse. There's not much cheering a soccer/football mom is going to be able to do if their son is off in the woods somewhere doing something more constructive with his life.

 

Stosh

[Lisabob]

Surely there is no shortage of other activities for boys to get involved in, and many who don't continue in scouting do find other niches. Hard to say whether that's because there's a sudden hole in their lives where scouting used to be, or whether their parents are pushing them into a more convenient activity. Probably some of both. But I think burned out parents matter a LOT because kids pick up on their parents' attitudes. Parents who are sick and tired of the hassle will send that message to their kids whether they mean to or not.

 

Anyway I agree in part with Barry that it is probably healthy to consider a change in den leadership when you move from Bears to Webelos. While I disagree with some of his gender-based assumptions, I do agree about the burn-out factor that rolls around about now in a typical Bear DL's "career." What I also noticed was that a lot of people who were Tiger, Wolf, and Bear DLs had a hard time relinquishing control and starting to see those 4th/5th graders as increasingly independent young men. Especially the adults who had been DLs for a couple of years sort of got into a groove. They KNEW how to run den meetings, etc.. A new WDL could take a fresher look at things, perhaps.

 

As for the tighter connection between troops/webelos, I think that's a great idea, although it could also place such distance between the Webelos and the rest of the pack as to call into question why Webelos are still considered Cub Scouts at all. And it would take careful coordination and a lot of communication so that there wasn't a sense of entitlement to "feeder dens" established. Not to mention that I don't know very many active boy scout leaders who have that much time to spare! But all of that aside, I do think this would go a long way toward improving the experience and making for smoother transitions into boy scouting.

[GKlose]

Although we've never talked about it directly, I think I'm safe in saying it's not the program my wife is burned out with, or working with Cubs. It's the den parents and other pack adults. An example might be working on getting consensus on putting together a den activity for some kind of achievement. Then someone doesn't show up, without warning. Then the expectations of accommodations to be made because the Cub missed the activity, all the while "Akela" doesn't read the manual to figure out what the Cub should be working on. It's like they want a drop off activity that they don't want to have to deal with, but then still have expectations of advancement despite the limited participation.

 

Another way she's been burned. We moved to a new pack, older son fit right in with the existing Webelos den (first year). Younger son couldn't be placed in the existing Wolf den because the DL thought that 8 was already too many. Fine, so he participated (as a Wolf) with a Bear Den. For the next year, my wife went to great trouble to recruit enough to fill out a den. That's fine, she actually recruited quite a few boys from my son's school for the entire pack. That's fine too, until this last fall when the DE placed flyers for two other packs in the same school, but not for our pack. One of those packs got the bulk of recruits for this year; DE asks me why recruiting is down on our pack (uh, maybe because you did an end-run around one of the primary recruiters for our pack?).

 

At some point she started to wonder if it is worth the trouble. I don't blame her for feeling burned out.

 

Guy

[fleetfootedfox]

I am a Webelos leader. I had two boys who were getting bored, so I tried to spice up the program. I added monthly just-for-fun activities (no advancement involved). The first one was laser tag. (Please don't tell me about the guide to safe scouting saying you can't do laser tag. Different topic.) This worked with one of the boys, but the other boy's mom wouldn't let him attend.

 

What irks me is lack of personal responsibility from these people who complain. Most of these "burnt-out" parents are not the ones who were planning all the meetings, attending committee meetings, attending Roundtables, and doing everything they could to try to provide a good program for the boys. No, they are the parents who were always content to be on the sidelines.

[Lisabob]

Scouter760, that's an interesting observation. I would venture to say that there is a difference between the burned out leader types, and the uninterested sideline parent types. The former are the people who, like GKlose's wife, made the pack "go" but get fed up with dealing with adult hassles. After several years of that they really deserve and need a break!

 

The latter are the ones where, sometimes, I wondered why they became parents at all. In fact, the uninvolved sideline parents often increase the burn-out factor of the other, committed adults, through their unthoughtful behavior.

 

On the other hand, I think it is important to remember that scouting is not going to be all things to all people. Much as I think it is a great program, for some it is just another thing to try out rather than a big part of their life. I don't have a huge problem with that, as long as people behave with a modicum of common courtesy toward those who run the program.

 

 

[GernBlansten]

Lisa, I think where we lose a lot of boys is the "try out" types who get into Cubs, do it for a year or two and realize it just isn't their game (arts and crafts and such). So when they reach boy scout age, they think they already did that, and don't even consider joining even though its an entirely different program.

My son didn't join cubs until webelos. He's now 16, an Eagle and still active in the troop. Had we joined at Tiger, I'm not sure he would have made it to boy scouts. He's just not into parlor meetings or making sock puppets.

[Eagledad]

>>While I disagree with some of his gender-based assumptions,

[GKlose]

"And I think most here would be amazed at how few troops have a plan for the parents of visiting Webelos."

 

I noticed that last year when I took my older son to visit all troops in town (I visited one on my own, too, which was in a different town). Most had a CC walking around to answer questions, but more often than not, the "troop meeting" was a slide show of stuff the troop did in the prior year. Parents watched the same thing.

 

So, fast forward to this year. As a troop membership chair (also, strangely enough, the district membership chair!) I helped organize a Webelos open house night. The Webelos Den from our "feeder pack" (a loose relationship) didn't show -- we pretty much were repeating the same program we did for the entire pack a couple of months earlier. Dens from one other pack -- the pack my younger son is in -- showed up. Another pack's den didn't show up at all, and then sent email a week later asking when they could come visit the troop :-).

 

Anyway, we meet in a large room. While the Webelos went off with Scouts, I pulled parents aside, hoping to talk to them for about 5 minutes. I showed them a folder I put together that I wanted to hand to their sons (first mistake -- I should have just handed them the folder -- later on, when I did hand it to their sons, each one of them just immediately turned over the folder to their parent), and talked briefly about how Cub Scouts is different than Boy Scouts. What I didn't expect is that their questions pretty much took up the rest of an hour. The SM dropped over to say hello, but we were positioned in the room so they could all see their sons off in the distance having fun. The CC was absent that night, but everything went really well. I sent followup email with some details I told them I would look up, and several answered back thanking us for hosting them.

 

I guess it didn't take much, and it seemed to go over well.

 

Lisabob -- you got it right -- two kinds of burnout. I've seen both, multiple times. I've also seen it multiple times with CC/CM dual-role adult leaders, or "one-man shows" (just so happens that I've seen men in these cases).

 

Guy

[mmhardy]

Good discussion.

 

Its clear that parents are not burned out being with their children. Its doing the intense scouting thing 5 plus years that gets old.

 

There is kind of an unwritten convention that about 3 years is it in any position. Year 1 you learn. Year 2 you preform. Year 3 you teach and move on. Maybe the same cadence is needed here.

 

What about the idea that Webelo's is the separation point. Detach a bit from the Pack and link up a bit with a one or more Troops. I think it would be an idea worth kicking around.

 

[Horizon]

Our Webelos Night:

 

Powerpoint for the Parents

Pancakes for the boys.

 

Everyone gathers, the boys are put into Patrols, and then they go around a series of activities to give them a feel for the Troop (backpack race, knot relay, putting up a tent, lashings and the aforementioned pancakes). Each station is run by a different patrol, and Troop Guides are leading the Webelos around.

 

While this happens, the parents are getting the powerpoint presented by my SPL and my Webelos recruiter. When I come up, I invite the parents to ...

 

Go away (delivered with a smile).

 

"I hope you have enjoyed SPL's presentation - it is his Troop, not mine. Boy Scouts is boy run, not adult run. In our Troop we ask for parents to drive to campouts, and to stick around if they wish to be there for ALL of the boys. For those of you who are the Den Leaders - we would love to have you on our Committee and to consider becoming an Assistant Scoutmaster. However, we also recommend that you take some time off while your son fits into the Troop. This is a great time to let your son stand on his own, with the help of his fellow Scouts."

 

The looks of relief are priceless. I find that doing that not only helps the parents accept Boy Scouts, but I also get stronger volunteers after their break.

[jcfiredog]

I will have to agree with the majority here, I never got tired of the boys, just the 'job.' I was in charge of the B&G supposively. Until the Cubmaster decided my script had too much of the Webelos in it and not enough CM. Committee arguing about whether we could have Chris Cakes come in and do pancakes. Some kids are not allowed to eat pancakes. What??? It was not the Webelos or the program. I graduated 100% of my boys including a very late addition that worked super hard for his AOL. I think the only thing that kept me going was the boys interest (well 75% of them were) and my own sons urging that he wanted super 20 and to be an Eagle. Whiney stay at home moms who want it to be like a play date and thinks their kid will only eat good food ruins the fun for the rest of us.

 

I will join the troop my son and 5 of the 7 boys that I crossed over, but I am retired until at the earliest, after camp. I do plan to camp with the boys some but no way can I run anything. I also have a 5 year old girl who wants to be a boy scout or a girl scout if she has too.. I have to say it is kinda cute. I just hope the brownies or whatever doesn't make her not like to go camping and doing the fun stuff we like now.

 

Burn out is real. Burn out on kids is rare, the parents and committee I can do without.

[ScoutNut]

I have been volunteering with the Cub Scouts for 14 years now. 9 of those have been with no son in the Pack.

 

I am also a trainer, and a UC.

 

Not burned out yet!

 

 

[hingram]

Girl Scouting is a whole different world. It's really not "scouting" unless it is a very unique troop. You need a form signed by all the parents to light a candle at a meeting.

 

Our Webelos were always impressed when Boy Scouts attended the meeting and helped out. If I had a Webelo den, I would recruit a Boy Scout to help out or ask the troop to provide one on an alternating basis.