Cub/Webelo Parents Burned out by the 5th grade.

[mmhardy]

With B&G and cross over season in full swing I was looking forward to a fresh recruiting class. At our last B&G I was chatting with a parent with two boys who actually discouraged her son from continuing in Scouts. Her rational was that junior was going to expand his experience with Sports, Band, Student Council, Key Club and other school oriented/supported activities. Plus, she admitted that the family was kind of burned out on the Scouting thing for the past five years.

 

This cannot be an isolated case. I wonder if the emphasis on Cubs has created a jaded view of the older part of the program. I wonder if the high required parent involvement coupled with the arts & crafts activities contaminate the 11-18 year old Boy Scout program. i.e. Scouts are sissies

 

Perhaps Cubs and Webelos need to distance themselves more from the Boy Scout program. I think many parents view the Boy Scouts as just an indistinguishable continuation of the Cub program. Thus the been-there-done-that mind-set takes hold.

 

[KurtB]

5 years is a long time - for both the scout and the adult.

 

My son just bridged over to Boy Scouts yesterday. I was the Cubmaster/Assistant Cubmaster of the Pack for 4 of the 5 years, and a very active parent in his Tiger Den (the original den leader wanted to quit before she ever started).

 

My wife was his den leader from Wolf through Webelos II. I helped her as much as possible, while still leading the pack.

 

Also in those 5 years, the entire Pack committee went through a transition, there were problems with one of the other Den Leaders which led to her dismissal from the Pack, and other "transition" and "growing" problems.

 

Not to mention the work that I have done on the District Committee over the past 4 years.

 

I would be lying if I did not say My wife and I are exhausted and feeling burned out.

 

But the program is not really about the adults. I have a limited amount of time to spend in the life of a child - so I am going to give it every minute that I can.

 

If the Webelos program is done for what it is - a transition to Boy Scouts, by the time the boys are ready to move on, they will no longer think of what they are doing as "arts and crafts" time, which is what a lot of the Tiger-Bear ranks seem to be.

 

Give the Webelos ownership of their den, and they will want to continue on to Boy Scouts. There is no need to further "distance" the cubs from Boy Scouts. The Webelos program already does that to a great extent. By having the boys do more activities with Boy Scouts, and having less "cub scout" oriented den meeting, the boys already see themselves as moving from one program to another.

 

Early on in my son's Webelos den (the "Blazing Buffalo Wings"), the "adults" lead the program. Making sure they did what they needed to do to earn the Webelos badge. By the time the last 6 months rolled around, my son's den planned the calendar, and led the activities. They were doing as much or as little of what they wanted to do.

 

I am looking forward to Boy Scouts. The troop that my son bridged into is more than willing to accept adult volunteers. But as a guideline, they encourage those adults that were extremely active at the Pack level to take a break and refresh. It also helps out the troop by giving the current troop leadership a chance to "train" the former Cub Scout adults on the way a Boy Led troop operates. Something that can be hard for those of us that have been "in charge" for 4+ years.

 

Kurt(This message has been edited by kurtb)

[gcan]

i agree that much of cubbing is "artsy-craftsy". When we moved up into Webelos, we really tried to get away from that... and the boys were thrilled to be building rockets and catapaults instead of sock puppets.

 

If the kids are burnt out by the time they get to boy scouts, then the Webelos need to rethink thier programs. we kept 'em active and busy (most boys in the past 2 years earned thier 20er award), and they are now all enthusiastic boy scouts.

 

i'd reccommend getting away from the sit-at-the-table den meetings. get out and go someplace. Instead of the DL doing readyman, visit a fire station. For the Drama requirements, see if the boys can help out with the HS play set up. make it fun, they will stay interested.

[Eagle92]

I agree while they are Webelos they need to get out more. GET DEN CHIEFS as they and their parents cans see a glimpse of Scouting. I'ld also encourage multiple visits to troops.

[GKlose]

Our troop hosted a Webelos open house a few weeks back. I took the group of parents aside to address them separately about our troop, and Boy Scouts in general. This burnout thing is fairly common, but I stressed with this group of parents that the Boy Scout program is completely different. It's no longer about parent-son, it's about individual growth.

 

One dad, whom I know and my my wife knows very well, asked a question: "how soon can [my son] earn Eagle?". His thinking is along the lines of let's get this over and done with. As gently as I could, I tried to tell him that's not what the program is all about. He's missing the "individual growth" part I was talking about and still thinking about marching his son from activity to activity in order to get him his badge.

 

Guy

[Eagledad]

>>If the kids are burnt out by the time they get to boy scouts, then the Webelos need to rethink thier programs.

[Lisabob]

I never got tired of the kids or the activities when we were active with cub scouting. What I got tired of was dealing with half-baked adults. For whatever reason, it seems to me you get fewer of these in boy scouts, and those who start out in a troop don't stick around for long.

 

Maybe it is because in cubs you have a lot of young parents, some of whom have barely made it past being children themselves, and seem incapable of acting like grown ups. Maybe because, by the time the kids are 6-10 years old, this is the point where a lot of parents' dysfunctions are full-blown and out in the open. Maybe because a lot of parents just seem to think that they (not their kids - the parents) are entitled to have programs like cubs where someone else does all the work, everything goes off perfectly every time, and the kid is constantly being awarded all sorts of stuff, whether earned or not. It seems like some parents use this as a validation of themselves, in a sick sort of way.

 

Honestly, I don't know what the motivating factors are, but I witnessed so much bad adult behavior in cub scouts that there were days I wondered how some of these folks got themselves dressed in the morning and managed to hold a job, let alone be parents and community members. People would shout and scream about the stupidest stuff. Most neither understood nor particularly cared to understand the program, including some "I'm an Eagle Scout" dads who seemed to just want to be in control of everything.

 

It wasn't a person or two. It was a lot of them. And although most didn't stick with the program more than a year or two, there was a never-ending supply of new ones so that you started all over with this baloney each year. I loved cub scouting for working with the boys and for the chances it gave me to spend more time with my family, since my husband and I and our son were all involved. But sheesh. I was so glad that most of the dysfunctional adults above did NOT move along to boy scouts.

 

So yeah, when my son moved on to boy scouts, I sure needed a break. But it wasn't from the boys!

 

[GKlose]

My experience could pretty much echo everything that Lisabob just offered.

 

The saving grace for us, after bouncing to a 3rd pack, was that they were meeting on a night I couldn't make due to a regular conflict. I had a long discussion with my wife that if she wanted to switch to that pack, the burden would mostly be on her (although I would be available for other evenings and weekends, for Webelos outings). She stuck with it, became a DL and a stand-in CM for pack meetings. After two years of leading, I'd say she's burned out and ready for our younger son to move on to Scouts.

 

If anything, the common refrain I see with Cub parents is "what do I need to do to get [my son] his badge?" It's not about building a successful youth program (although it should be), it's about wedging in the bare minimum while shuttling between all other activities. This is one incongruity that I sense -- the Cub program was sort of designed as a "be all, end all" after-school activity, with only minor modifications ever since. Modern parents aren't wired into the same thing -- they are more into exposure to a lot of different activities. I think everyone here would agree that a well-run Cub program would be a perfect "one stop shop" for youth activity; it has a little bit of everything, and plenty of options. Lots of variety, and plenty of reward from patches to belt loops to pins and other shiny things.

 

I moved with my older son to a troop (and I also started volunteering at the district level). My wife is in no mood to register as an adult with the troop, but I recognize that while it does take time, it doesn't take the same kind of effort, especially with respect to keeping kids entertained.

 

Guy

[evmori]

I agree with Barry on this. Tigers is the problem, not Webelos. Tigers, to me, adds nothing to a Pack except more headaches. It seems the reason Tigers was created was so that little brother could be part of the Pack big brother was in. What's wrong with waiting?

 

In my opinion, if you eliminate Tigers, there will be less burnout on the back end & crossover rates will be higher.

 

Isn't there talk of creating a younger group called Lions?

[EagleBeaver]

One of our main points when having boy scouts speak to webelos dens is that they are not 'graduating' from anything. They've just gotten their big toe wet in scouting and the real fun starts this spring. When older scouts deliver this message along with pictures and stories of their adventures, the webelos don't seem burned out.

 

Most (nearly all) parents of joining scouts that were involved as cub scout leaders inform me that they really want a break from being a leader. It is seldom that one says, "OK, sign me up!" The adults that were involved in cub scouts have put in a lot of effort and I have no problem giving them a 'honeymoon' time with the troop. Long about November, we start talking again about where they might help out.

 

evmori: The kindergarten program is more than talk. It's an active program in some select areas.

[OldGreyEagle]

as I recall, and others invovled in the GSUSA help me out, but the entry level program for Girls Scouts is Daisy which is Kindergarten and First Grade. The boys see the girls in their class doing scouting things and the best message the BSA had was WAIT? Wait for what? For sports to take over their life? My understanding was that Tigers was started to compete with the Daisy program, well, not compete, but to provide activties at a time when the Girl Scouts are are active.

 

Having said that, I guess I have to wonder about parents who get "burned out" on their kids or their kids activities. I want to know why one has children if you are not going to be active in their life. Now that my son has aged out, I would love to have another campout with him, walk through the 2010 Jamboree with him as we did in 2001. If we have parents burning out because they have to take care of their children, we have a much deeper issue in American Society that 800 billion or whatver the current figure is will ever cure

I enjoyed raising my boy, I can't imagine not being around him as he grew up, I can't imagine the dispassionate adults we are breeding by having parents unabashedly stating they are burned out by parental responsibilities

[Eagle92]

Being a young parent with a son who is about to join Tigers in June I think part of the problem is that parents today think they have to have their kids involved in EVERYTHING: sports, scouts, band, karate, 4-H, ad nauseum. they don't pick a few, or allow their child to decide what they like and don't like.

 

My wife has a few friends that all they do is take their kids from one activity to the next. Most of these activities allows the parent to drop off their kid, thus the parent get a little free time, even if it's sitting in the car reading. But CS, especially TCs, requires parental involvment. And some of today's parent are a little selfish.

 

As for CS leaders not wanting get involved in scouting, I've had the reverse problem. They see BS as a continuation of CS and try to continue the same job they did in the pack, i.e. run things. usually who have to tell them to slow down and let the kids do their thing.

[Twocubdad]

If the boys are burned out, the troop or pack or both is doing a poor job with the Webelos program and the Webelos-to-Scout transition. If you're doing it right, the boys will be going nuts to get into the troop.

 

I do see a problem with adult burn out. Lots of issues here. As noted before, 5 years is a long dang time. I think the leadership model of parents tracking along with their boys as Tiger, Cub and Webelos leaders is part of the problem. The old model of having a dedicated leader who sticks with one program seems to work better. They get to specialize and benefit from their own experience. Plus, if after a few years, they feel it's time to take a break, they can do so without feeling like they're letting their boy down.

 

I think training is a big issue. I'd like to see some statistics, but my experience is that not many Webelos leaders are trained to position. They think that because they've already taken two courses, they don't need to take Webelos leader specific. The fact that the three courses are so similar doesn't help either. Leaders who are already starting to feel the burn are't going to be terribly excited about taking a full weekend to take outdoor training.

 

A perfect example is the two Webelos leaders crossing over into the troop with their boys. One has been the den leader since Tigers. He's shot. Told me flat-out don't count on him to do anything. He wants time off and will let us know when he's ready to re-engage. (Right -- I'll hold my breath.) The other guy's son joined the pack mid-Bear year and the dad took over as den leader at the beginning of WebI. He's full of wiz and vinegar and ready to go. He took ASM training LAST SPRING and OLS in the fall. He want's to take Wood Badge. He shows up for troop meetings every few weeks just to see what we're doing. Already signed up to go to summer camp for the full week.

 

Unfortunately, the WDLs I get are about split evenly between these two poles. I have to wonder what kind of Webelos program the first guy has been running the past year.

 

I've sometimes thought that when I retire from the troop, I'd like to do two things: run day camp again and be the full-time Webelos II den leader for the pack. I think having a permanent WebII DL would solve a lot of problems.

[Nike]

I see two main problems:

 

1) Tigers--The Tiger DL should not have a boy in that den. Period. Being a DL and a Tiger partner is too much. This is supposed to be a fun, zero stress time for parents and boys to do stuff together. I'm going to volunteer to be a Tiger DL after my #2 son moves on.

 

2) Webelos can't camp on thier own as a den with just their den leaders. GS Jr.s are the same age and they go camping all the time with out M&D.

 

If Webelos are treated more and more like Boy Scouts who just need a little more supervision, the boys will probably enjoy it more.

[Eagledad]

>>I think having a permanent WebII DL would solve a lot of problems.