Staffing the District Camp-o-ree and 2 Deep Leadership

[CNYScouter]

The District Venturing Crews (and some older Boy Scouts) have offered to run the events at our District Camp-o-ree in May.

I have offered to coordinate this effort.

 

This has a Backpacking/Hiking theme where Patrols will be using Map & Compass or a GPS to locate stations on a map and hike out to each station where they will have some type of task to perform using basic Scout Skills.

These stations could be up to a mile away from Camp-o-ree headquarters.

 

There is one station with climbing involved which will have adults helping but the rest of stations they will be doing things like First Aid, Lashing and a station shooting water balloons at targets with a 3 person slingshot.

 

The SM of the Troop associated with my sons Crew is telling me that these stations need to have 2 adults at them with the Venturers/older Boy Scouts as it violates the G2SS and the 2 Deep Leadership rule.

 

I disagree with needing adults at all the stations as 2 Deep Leadership doesnt apply.

 

I have been asked to clarify this as it seems that reading the G2SS isnt enough for him.

 

I normally would just recruit the adults but the Venturers have made it pretty clear that they want to do this themselves and do as much as than can to keep adults away and let the Scouts do things on there own.

 

What does everyone think - Is it a volation of th G2SS by having only Venturers man these remote stations?

 

Since this is a District event who would be the person at the District level to contact?

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

In a way, I agree with your scoutmaster, if you have one adult at a station, you need to have another for 2 deep leadership. Then again, if you have none, then you don't need any just like a patrol event.

 

I take it in todays world, the stations, regardless of distance, will be in communication with "home base" either by radios or cell phones so what could be the issue? Why not let the Venturing Youth show what youth can do, pretty exciting actually, let us know how it goes

[Stosh]

I agree. If there are no adults at the station, the boys can do just fine by themselves with a cell phone backup. Otherwise station 4 boys at each station so they could go for help if necessary. Standard BSA rules.

 

Keep it in mind there is the issue of Venturing Crew "boys" being over 18 and less than 21 which throws the perverbial wrench into things about defining them as adults for Boy Scout purposes on a Boy Scout event.

 

Stosh

[Eagledad]

First off, that sounds like a really cool Camporee. I wish we lived closer.

 

I can't remember what they call it, but the rule is to have a least three people. At least two adults or two scouts. I think this will count as an activity and not an outing.

 

A solution is have two adults walk around together to check on the events. Hang around for a couple minutes then walk to the next. That way the scouts are doing the boy run thing without adult supervision and the adults are doing their check, but not staying long enough to take away the boy run expereince. Everyone gets what they want and no rules are broken.

 

Barry

[scoutingagain]

Sounds like a neat idea.

 

As Barry noted, two deep adult leadership is for an outing. These are events or activities within an outing. The two deep leadership requirement doesn't apply.

 

You still need to avoid one on one contact between adults and youth though. In that sense, I could see having one adult at a station actually creating a YP challenge. If there are two other youth present and for one reason or another one of them had to leave. The lone adult could not be left with a lone scout and could not hike back with one youth. You are more likely to stay in compliance with YP requirements leaving the adults behind in a central area with the youth in communication as suggested.

 

SA

 

 

[CNYScouter]

OGE - what you are saying is my stance on this issue.

 

The disagreement is coming from the SM that is saying there HAS to be 2 adults at every station and our Venturers can't be on their own as it violates G2SS.

 

The issue of Venturing Youth "Boy"and Boy Scout "adult" only effects 2 so I think that can be worked out.

 

I don't see why this is even an issue.

 

Between the older Scouts in this Troop and the Venturing Crew there are over a dozen "youth" that are not only First Aid, CPR and BSA Lifeguard Certified but they are also certified at Wilderness First Aid Rescuer level.

 

It seems that I have no problem trusting these youth with being to handle any emergency but their SM does.

 

[Hal_Crawford]

Would anyone give it a second thought if the same boys were working as counselors at summer camp? As long as age requirements for specific activities (climbing for instance) are met then you should be good to go.

[DeanRx]

Yeah ! another example of a well intended rule mucking things up when interpreted incorrectly.

 

YPG states that you must practice 2-deep leadership on any OUTING. This means a minimum of TWO trained adults on any unit outing.

 

YPG also states that there should be no one-on-one contact between adults and scouts (unless the scout is your son). So, as long as the Venturing Crewmember has more than one scout in their group, what is the big deal?

 

YPG doesn't even state that an adult cannot GO into a scout's tent. It states that no adult and scout may SLEEP in the same tent. Not that I would recommend putting yourself in a situation to be accused of anything inappropriate, but far too many folks automatically take YPG to the witch-hunt level.

 

Heck - I can drive another person's cubbie home from a Den meeting (as long as I have my son in the car with me).

 

I say, have a heart to heart w/ the SM again and bring in a district rep if needed. Brief the Venturer's on being YPG compliant while conducting the event and provide 'roving' adults to insure overall safety of the scouts and the event.

 

Then go HAVE FUN with it for Pete's sake. Its the YPG Nazi's that take all the FUN out of Scouting.

[OldGreyEagle]

I do not beleive it right to use the Nazi term, that comparison is well over the top and not necessary. The youth protection rules of the BSA have been developed to protect the reason we exist, the youth. There is also no small side benefit to the protection following the Youth protection principles brings to adults.

 

There are no options on Youth Protection, at the same time, there is no Youth Protection issue here either(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)