BSA to Pursue Negotiations to Establish National Scouting Center

[Hal_Crawford]

The Leadership Center will operate year round, I guess in the model of Philmont Training Center. Emb is right that the High Adventure component would be in WVA. There is also talk of a Scouting Museum and a "Gold Standard" Scout Camp that would be a prototype for new or upgraded camps nation wide. This last thing is the least defined and is probably a future development.

[SSScout]

Hal: Someday we gotta meet. I wasn't able to attend the 'Town Meeting', I opted to attend a new Cub Pack's organizing meeting. Decisions, decisions.

 

20-20 hindsight. NCAC, back in my Scoutday, had three and maybe four camps. I'm a little hazy there, Roosevelt, Thunderbird and Wilson and a fourth that slips my mind. All were sold to purchase Goshen. We also now, thanks to a private individual's largess and the excellent forethought of our SE, (correct me if I'm wrong there, Hal) have Camp Snyder, near Manassas/Haymarket VA, 350 acres of Cub Camp, but BSs use it alot too. It boasts a new training/conference center, admin building, rebuilt wetland/lake, big pool, ACed dining hall, four Cub theme areas, 100plus acres of wooded campsites with hot showers, high COPE course, RC airplane runway, etc.

 

Lessee... this Saturday, Scoutson hikes/camps the AT, TSO takes Scoutson's 4H rabbits to a rabbit show/competition in Richmond, I help with a BSLST course.

 

Time for bed. Goodnight all.

 

[Hal_Crawford]

SSScout:

Yeah, I went to Teddy Roosevelt as a scout. Calvert County, MD on the shores of the Chesapeake Bay. Summers of 64 and 65.

 

I think part of the deal with Goshen was integrating the scout camps. In the bad old days they ran segregated camps and Goshen put that to rest once and for all.

 

Our troop has camped at the old Camp Wilson which is now part of Pohick Bay Regional Park.

 

Hal

[SSScout]

Hal: By gar, I thought that must of been you I saw going down the Bay Trail that year! 64,65,66. I musta used a gallon of Vaseline for seanettle protection for the Mile Swim! Pohick Bay Camp, eh?

 

[Hal_Crawford]

Small world. I remember that there was a camp-wide turtle race. I also remember everyone in the dining hall chanting "Staff Turtle Soup!"

 

I loved the camp experience and would have happily gone back again if we hadn't moved overseas. Still, I have to admit that I like the patrol method camping at Camp Bowman better. I think the scouts get more out of it than I got out of TR.

 

Hal

 

 

 

[Gags]

Hal,

 

I think we attended the same presentation (in Falls Church). I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the future of Goshen - I didn't get a clear answer when I asked what percentage of Goshen's land (of the ~5000 acres) would be developed.

 

I realize much of the camp borders designated wilderness/park land, but looking at the initial footprint on the map, not much of the current camp will be left untouched.

 

It's nice we'll have great training facilities (although who on the East Coast is going to travel 3 hours for training?), and an improved waterfront, but I picture future summer camps as a sort of "after the plague" scenario - there will be so much excessive infrastructure during the non-Jambo years that it may seem we're camping in an abandoned city vs. summer camp. (OK, so this last statement may seem excessive - I've never visited AP Hill in the "off-season", but that's my first impression, at least).

 

Regarding some earlier comments - my understanding is that the fly-overs of military planes are practice runs - either with the dam itself as the "target", or there is a beacon or other device in the dam (built by Army Corp of Eng)the planes use to lock on to.

 

Also will be curious to see how they handle traffic through Goshen Pass - they intentionally send people through Staunton to avoid this road - not sure how they will route people to Goshen coming from the South.

 

YiS,

 

Gags

[Hal_Crawford]

Gags:

Well that's two of us that were in the same room. I'm the one who asked about the future of Lenhok'sin (probably , what this would do to future camping costs (they'll probably go up) and suggested that the dam was a shovel ready project. OK, I'm not shy.

 

It looks like they are going to use everything on the west shore and more on the east than is currently in use. I understand that once upon a time Camp Baird was a regular scout camp and I think there was another near it so the east shore wasn't always as sparse as it is now.

 

I get what your saying about the potential for a post apocalyptic feeling when the jamboree is not in town. I think the key is the trees. If they stick to the plan of keeping all the camp sites wooded it will probably not be all that noticeable since the council camping will be on one side and the bulk of the jambo will be on the other.

 

To me it comes down to the trees. My biggest fear is that somewhere in the design process the the design team suddenly realizes that they have been overly optimistic about how many tents can be sited in the woods. Suddenly those trees could be viewed as impediments rather than features. BRRRMMMMM-POP-POP-POP (is that sound of a chain saw starting?) I fully expect that they will thin the forest in places but I really hope the resist any temptation to start clear cutting. If the jamboree becomes a lot of open space then the atmosphere could change a lot. I don't know if you have ever seen poster showing an aerial view of the reservation taken from somewhere south of the dam. The photo was taken in the first few years of the reservation. The east shore (Bowman) looks much as it does now, but Camp Olmstead on the west shore is bald as a baby's bottom; no trees anywhere near the lake. There is another photo taken more recently shows just how many trees have been planted since. All fast growth pine.

 

My troop has camped at Bowman every year since it opened and I hope we will want to for many years to come. BUT if the atmosphere changes too much there are a lot of other fine camps in the region and I guess we will have to check them out. I for one am keeping my fingers crossed.

 

Hal

 

 

 

[SSScout]

As I said before, I could not attend the info meeting, but I did attend '05 Jambo.I think the idea of "saving trees" is a noble one, but I will ask, where do you put 50,000 Scouts? In tents? In Troop sites? Compare that to the attendance and arrangement/dispersal of the normal summer camps at GSR. The clearing will happen and the tromping of 100,000 feet in 10 days time will take it's toll. The second growth and remaining first growth will suffer, no matter what.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

" (although who on the East Coast is going to travel 3 hours for training?),"

 

For BBBBOOOYYY SCOUT TRAINING SIR!

 

Actually on this comming Thursda April 2, 2009 I am headed to Camp Resolute for Camp Schhol. I will be driving about 5 hours to recertify as a Shooting Sports Rangemaster. I have often been critical of the BSA for offering certain types of training only at Philmont, if there was an East coast location, within 3 hours? heck within 8 hours, I would partake

[moxieman]

Gags wrote: "although who on the East Coast is going to travel 3 hours for training?"

 

I'm going to guess you've never been up to my neck of the woods in the Maine Wilderness. We don't call it that for nothing. My district is 3 hours long north-to-south. Many of us travel that far and further to attend training events.

 

We have people come from as far away as 6.5 hours to the south from CT Rivers Council to attend some of our training events up here.

 

My job sends me to far northern Maine once a month. It's 4.5 hours each way from Disgusta to Presque Isle in good weather.

 

Three hours travel is *nothing*.

 

Oh, and if they started offering Philmont-like trainings at this new center at Goshen, I would make the trek down. It's only 13 hours in good traffic/weather one-way from here. (This message has been edited by moxieman)

[SctDad]

Moxie

 

I grew up in Maine and I know what it is you are talkin about. When I tell people about that I am from up that way they are always askin "Did you ever go to boston" I tell them that it was only an hour away and that we went there all the time.

 

But anyway, I know what you mean by 3 hours until something substanncial (sp).

 

I like the idea of another High Adventure base around the east coast. I cannot afford to go to Philmont. Although it is soemthing that I aspire to do with my son when he is old enough. But if there was something along those lines local to the east coast that we can get some of the same experiences. Not to mention a local national training center. I am unable to take 10-14 days off to go out to teh NTC at philmont and I really cannot afford all those costs. If there was one here on the east coast it would probably be used at a decent rate.

[moxieman]

SctDad,

 

The "former" Maine High Adventure Area still exist, but is now operated by Katahdin Area Council. It's not the desert southwest, but a lot of the same style of rugged wilderness hiking in the Maine Wilderness.

 

Anyway, I did go out to Philmont Training Center (PTC) for a session five years back. The week I was there, I was recognized for having traveled the furthest that particular week. I've covered elsewhere in the past on this forum my experience at PTC and won't repeat it here.

 

However, it would be a long time before I'd return due to the cost. That trip cost me a month's pay. I can't spare that kind of cash these days. It wasn't the cost of the training that hurt the wallet. It was the cost of travel in order to get there and overnights prior to/after the training in order to work with the airline schedule. And I didn't stay in fancy places. I stayed at the $30/night motels. Yes, they still had those just five years ago if you searched hard enough.