ASM and CC at odds

[pjstorer]

Can a troop CC "fire" and kick out an adult leader, and can he close the committee meetings off to only allow the committee members/chairs?

[erickelly65]

Interesting questions.

 

I don't believe a CC can unilaterally kick a leader out of the Troop. Each adult app takes the signature of the COR and the CC so I would think both would need to be in agreement.

 

I believe the CC can hold closed meetings of the committee but I can't see how that would be a good thing.

 

Finally, the CC serves at the discretion of the COR and ulimately the Chartering Organization Head and, if need be, can be removed by them.

[ScoutNut]

A CC can "fire" a leader - with the consent of the Charter Org (COR). The CO has the final word.

 

There are no closed, or secret, meetings in BSA. There is no reason to do so.

 

Contact your COR.

 

[scoutldr]

There are no "closed" meetings involving youth. Any parent is welcome to attend and observe. On the other hand, I could see closing committee meetings if having superfluous people there becomes disruptive or counterproductive. ASM's report to the SM and technically have no role in a Committee meeting.

[Beavah]

Yah, pjstorer, sounds like there's some story here. We might be able to help yeh a bit more if you told us what was up.

 

The COR can (and often will) take a CC's recommendation to remove an adult leader. Generally speakin', the CC should be makin' that recommendation on behalf of the entire committee, since it's da committee that's charged with recommending adult leadership. There are some times, though, particularly in religiously-run units, where a CC may have a greater role in representin' da CO.

 

There is no obligation that unit committee meetings be open. That's da most common practice, but it ain't required. Even when the normal practice is open meetings, there are times to close 'em. When a committee is considerin' discipline of adult or youth members, considerin' financial aid for needy boys based on family financial circumstances, talkin' about how to support a lad with a private medical condition, all kinds of things.

 

Beavah

 

[t4eagle137]

I agree with Beavah, we would be able to help you if we knew the circumstances.

 

I have a limited knowledge of how committees generally work, but it makes sense that the Chartered Organization Rep and the Committee Chairman should be in agreement for removing an adult leader.

[Nike]

I know there isn't agreement on the need for by-laws, but this is one of the times they come on handy.

[pjstorer]

Too much drama to get into it. If this sitution were to be a book, there would be 10 different chapters with 10 different people, events, etc.

In short we didn't see eye to eye on a couple of things. I was dual hatting a couple committee pos as well as ASM. ASM as far as I knew was my official recharter title since I can't do both on paper, but still part of the committee.

Many events happened over several months, and some in reflection, I could have handled better or different, but none of them were serious in nature. Things just drug out, and took too long to reslove.

Bottom line here, no one communicated anything to each other. Some people saw one one thing from someone, never bothered to talk to that person. The CC likes to communicate behind emails. A lot of times, emails or not, he beats around the bush, never saying what he means, and keeps you guessing at what he's getting at. I was never told that he didn't see me performing my duties as expected of an ASM. For the most part I thought I was.

Let me put it like this. I'm military. I know scouts and military stay seperate but there are some basic principles that stand true all the way around. If I have a problem with a subordinate, I talk to him. I discuss with him what I see. If it continues, there will be progressive actions taken accordingly, and at the end of the year, he will not get a good performance rating. Regardless if scouting does disciplinary paperwork, the same basic idea should be there. Talk to the individual. That never happened. It went straight to "tender your resignation" or be kicked out.

Me and the SM worked out our issues. A LOT of misunderstanding...they were never communicated. But we are good now.

Now it's like I have a price on my head from the CC.

He came in after our last troop meeting and laid down the law between me and the SM. I will attend re-traing for my position, I am banned from committee meetings, and a few other things. Those are stories in themselves. May I'll share next post.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

actually, an assistant scoutmaster is not supposed to be at a Troop Committee meeting I know many units allow this, but as an ASM you dont have to be at the meetings. Then, as far as who hires/fires, that as discussed is the Chartering Organization, either the Insitutional Head or the Chartering Organization Representative representing the IH

[t4eagle137]

It sounds to me like the Committee Chairman needs some training in social skills. You might talk with the Chartered Organization Representative and see if he has noticed (or heard from other adults) any of the same "bush beating" from the CC.

 

If that's the case, it might be time to find a replacement.

 

That's my two cents. Otherwise, perhaps you could talk with the CC and have a civil conversation about his issues.

[eisely]

The CC does not have the unilateral authority to remove any adult volunteer. There is no prescribed procedure for doing this of which I am aware. The authority rests with the Institutional Head or the Chartered Organization Rep. if there is one. COR is not a required position.

 

The one way a CC could effectively remove an adult volunteer without anybody noticing is at re charter time by just deleting the name from the roster of adults re registered. Since the re charter documents have to be reviewed and signed by others this would be a sneaky way of doing such a thing, but it is not beyond the realm of possibility.

 

Keep in mind that only the local or national council can remove a volunteer from scouting altogether. A unit may relieve an adult of responsibilities and demand that the adult no longer participate in unit activities, but that adult remains a registered scouter until the registration expires.

 

Lacking by laws, there is no real guidance I know of for conducting a committee meeting. Some on this forum maintain that committees are never expected to vote on anything. As an earlier post points out, going into closed or "executive" session is entirely appropriate for certain types of discussions and/or actions. If there are no by laws or written rules for conducting committee business, things are left pretty much to the whim of the CC.

 

As OGE points out ASMs are technically not part of the committee. I personally think it would be a mistake to exclude ASMs from committee deliberations. If the ASM in question is a parent of a currently registered youth member of the unit, then that ASM certainly has a parental right to at least listen and observe.