SSN requirement for CO

[packsaddle]

From personal experience (and I'm sure this varies from state to state) even information from convictions may not be found in a background check. But I am fairly certain that if they have not been convicted, people who have porn on computers, etc. will not be detected. BSA may have the right to demand the SSN but the argument is flawed on many levels if anyone thinks this provides much added safety.

 

As for credit checks, unless BSA is going to use this info to badger people who have good credit for donations, I am uncertain of the utility. Please explain how a credit check is of benefit to the boys.

Or to put this a different way, what is the cutoff for a credit score, if a volunteer is to be disqualified on that basis? Give me a number. Tell me why this makes sense.

[CA_Scouter]

fyi - here is some excerpts from the email my commish sent me:

 

..... or has committed

fraud in the course of doing business as a non-profit organizational

leader, etc., etc., etc. The only way to protect the boys and/or the

organization is to be able to do a background check and verify that the

person - for that matter, all adults that have anything to do with the

boys and the organization are clean enough to participate with the boys

at any level (even come close to the location where the boys are) and

participate at any level in the organization.

 

 

ALSO HE ADDED:

 

To not submit to

such a safety requirement by disclosing their background means to me as

a parent, that that person, who is the top leader of the organization,

is unwilling to commit to the safety of my son.

 

 

 

 

 

[scoutingagain]

"the argument is flawed on many levels if anyone thinks this provides much added safety"

 

That may be true, but as the response CA got, the perception of "safety" seems to be the reason the BSA is now asking for this information. More likely it's percieved liability defendablity. The fact is, to do a decent background check on an individual a SSN is needed. Like it or not it is the one, single unchanging identifier that is tied to an individual, or so it's supposed to be. Otherwise a background check on "packsaddle" might show up as "psaddle" with three felony convictions for embezzlement of charitable funds, child rape, or "littering and creating a nuisance" and there would be no way of telling if it was packsaddle of someone with the same or similar name.

 

So it looks like all those that refuse to give SSNs are now in the same membership category avowed gays and athiests.

 

SA

[packsaddle]

For the sake of safety especially, I am so relieved that the deadbeat who took off owing me 6 months rent will never, ever, for the rest of his life be able to become a scout leader.

 

While the drunk driver who nearly killed my entire family slips through, never having committed fraud or some felony.

 

Edited part: typo, sorry. Also, I guess my point is that this 'perception' is likely to be a deception, actually a 'self-deception'.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Hal_Crawford]

I think I missed something here. I know that BSA is doing criminal background checks on volunteers but did they every say they were doing credit checks. As far as I know a credit check is not part of a criminal background check. Credit checks are routinely required for government security clearances but I don't think that BSA has started requiring Top Secret clearance. Does anyone actually know that they are credit checks?

 

My experience with background checks at work is that the accuracy depends on who is doing it and how much they are being paid. The checks sometimes miss things (a check failed to find a conviction that the applicant had disclosed on his job application) and they sometime reveal convictions that had been allegedly removed from the record. Had an job applicant who was very surprised that a 5 year old "minor in possession of alcohol" conviction showed up on his background check. The young man had understood that the conviction would be removed from his record with the completion of community service and probation. With this in mind he did not disclose the conviction on the job application which did not please our HR department.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

I cannot speak for any council but my own:

 

If you staff a Scout Camp, you get a credit check.

 

If you volunteer FOS, you get a credit check.

 

If you go on the Finance Committee at District or Council, you get a credit check.

[Hal_Crawford]

That makes sense for people handling money. Do they run a check on councilors working in program areas or just senior staff who would be handling money? Camp Director, Trading Post manager are two that come to mind. Checking the credit of lifeguards or archery councilors seems unnecessarily intrusive.

 

I can here it know, "I'm sorry you can't be a CIT because you don't have a credit history".

[Mika]

Another form to figure out if you really need to include it... looks like the new BSA Annual Health and Medical Record (for boys and adults) has a space for SSN. Here is the note about it in the FAQ for that form:

 

"Q. Why do I need to put my childs or my own social security number on the record?

A. It is your choice as to whether you fill in this number; however, in many states, medical care cannot be rendered without it."

 

[scoutldr]

A year ago this month, I was in the hospital several times and ended up having surgery. My SSN was on every piece of paper associated with me...even the plastic wrist bands, which I had to shred when I got home. Every time I had a procedure or was given a med, I had to recite back my SSN verbally while they read it on the wrist band. Who knows where the other hundreds of pieces of paper went. Truth be known, everyone's SSN is already out there and any 14 year old with a computer can get it. As I type this there is a banner ad at the top of this page offering to "find and verify SSNs with this FREE search"...

[packsaddle]

Welcome to the forums, Mika! I hadn't noticed that on the medical form but then I haven't filled one out in quite a few years either, Tsk, tsk.

 

scoutldr, that must be specific to your state or medical system because my recent encounter with the knife showed no such info. It did, however, display the insurance account info which is linked to my SSN. Perhaps here in the South we're far advanced above the rest of the country, technologically.

[Mika]

It is a new BSA health form that will be replacing the old Class 1, 2, and 3 medical forms this year... and it is for everyone, the youth too.

 

Thanks for the welcome, but I was a senior member as KA6BSA with a couple hundred posts... have been active in BSA a long time (Eagle in 1959) but too busy for forums for a few years, so that account went dormant and I could not revive it.

 

Mika is the Hawaiian name for Mitch, since they do not have enough letters or sounds in their alphabet for it. I am native to San Diego but love to scuba dive the warm water at Kona each year.

 

So anyway, I am starting over at 1 post (now 2!) with this new identity and enjoying that I have no enemies yet. Give me to about number 10 to achieve that!

 

[Eagle92]

pack,

Then new health form that go into effect Jan 1 2010 has the SSN spot on it. That's because hospital's will use it if folks don't pay. So a hospital does ask for it. HOWEVER they cannot deny care because you don't a SSN. That's a violation of the federal EMTALA law, so the state laws cited in the FAQ is null and void. Trust me hospitals a VERY sensitive with EMTALA. I have to go through EMTALA training every year and I am not a clinical staffer, I'm support. SO if you are uncomfortable with having it on the form. DON'T DO IT. Let's face it if if a SSN was required for medical care, a lot of folks who use emergency departments would be out of luck.

 

Now a copy of the insurance card attached to the form I like.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

 

Edited; I like the insaurance cards UNLESS the policy number si your SSN(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[John-in-KC]

Hal,

 

In my Council, if you staff a Scout Camp, you get a credit check. Youth staff, adult paid staff, adult commish staff, does not matter. Logic is Camp Director needs flexibility to reallocate duties as needed.

[Horizon]

Packsaddle:

 

If the drunk driver was caught, then he will show up in a background check if he (or she) got a DUI. I used to be in charge of the background checks for our local AYSO league, so I saw all of the convictions - those luckily only included DUI and Drunk & Disorderly on the ones in our region.

 

 

[packsaddle]

The solicitor, our attorney, and a private detective failed to find two previous convictions for DUI, and several other less-serious offenses because they occured in small municipalities in other states and the records simply never made it to the database. They turned up years after the wreck and not through any kind of computerized check. The drunk was prosecuted once again as a first-time offender, paid a fine, and left for Oklahoma to enter flight school. Have a nice day.