SSN requirement for CO

[CA_Scouter]

I just was told by our Membership chair that our charter org rep won't complete her application because it requires she list her Social Security number. I can't say that I blame her because with the SSN and DL# one can easily obtain credit fraudulently in her name. She is adament that she not disclose this information.

 

So now it looks like we cannot recharter unless we find a replacement, which is not likely to happen soon. Complicating the matter is I've got a scout ageing out in 2 weeks who is just finishing his Eagle app.

 

Is the SSN requirement new for this year? I don't recall addressing this issue in previous years...

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

What happend is that in 2003, your SSN is required for all adult leaders so they can do a background check. Initially leaders who have been in the same psoition prior to 2003 were not checked. Back in Spring 2008, it was announced that ALL leaders who had not had a background check doen before would need to furnish the info to have the check done. A letter was sent to thsoe folks needing one, and they had until a certain date to do so. If they refused, then their membership was revoked until the background check was done.

[scoutldr]

CA: Call your Unit Commish (or District Commish) NOW. It's their job to run interference and fix stuff like this. Your Eagle candidate may need to transfer to another unit ASAP, as a last resort, if your unit's charter lapses. I'm not aware that the SSN requirement can be waived for anyone.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

[evmori]

I am always wary of people who won't give the required information like this.

[packsaddle]

Ed, after the past few months, I'm wary of people who WANT this kind of information. Especially if they're a banker.

[Eagle92]

Evmori,

I mave mixed emotions onthe topic. On one hand I like to keep my info confidential, especially since I work in one of the top 50 cities in the US for identity theft. I also know that in this age of companies and government being unsafe with our info, i.e. USAF computers found with SSNs, companies getting databases hacked, etc.

 

Maybe as a compromise, the leader could go down to the council office and submit the application directly to them, with the appropriate signatures of course, and fill out the SSN there. After all that block is blocked out ont he copies.

[evmori]

Yeah pack, us bankers are dangerous!

 

If it's required, ya gotta supply it! Plain & simple! There are 1001 ways for people to steal your identity! But you have to have something worth stealing!

[eisely]

I take it that the CO rep has been registered for some time and is not a new applicant.

 

The adult volunteer membership application also requests this information, but it is not retained on the copies of the multi part form. It is only on the original submitted to council.

[John-in-KC]

OK, what I've been told by my Professionals...

 

This year is the end of Grandfathering in my Council; they're doing background checks on the rest of us. It's becoming an absolute condition of membership

 

Second, a person can give their app (particularly the COR) directly to the Council Registrar.

 

Third, since we are talking a COR, it's time to have the DE/SE have a friendly cup of coffee sales/service call. DE is the RIGHT person to deal with issues of the Chartered Partner. Commish is Plan B for this.

 

Your Plan B: Move the Scout.

[molscouter]

evmori said

 

"Yeah pack, us bankers are dangerous!

 

If it's required, ya gotta supply it! Plain & simple! There are 1001 ways for people to steal your identity! But you have to have something worth stealing!"

 

Ed, who's to say it's required. In this case I understand, BSA is doing a background check and that's how credit agencies and government agencies track things. But most of the time, it's not necessary. Every time I go to the doctor, they ask for my SSN. They say the insurance company requires it. I say, no they don't, just submit it. And you know what, the insurance company processes the claim every time with no problems. Many states used to have your SSN as Drivers License number; they don't do that anymore. Why should private entities be allowed to?

[scoutldr]

I used to have my SSN printed on the front of my checks, because every time I wrote one, the store clerk would ask for it and write it on there. I don't do that any more, either. A friend of mine once walked out of a School Night for Scouting because they insisted that he fill out his SSN on the Adult application. Neither he nor his son ever became scouts. His rationale is...while the BSA may have a policy and procedure for safeguarding the info, the parents manning the table at School night have no duty to do so. Who knows where that app will go before it ends up in the Council office? He grew up in NYC, so a lot of that paranoia was justified.

 

Perhaps the BSA needs to move to a secure website for collecting private/sensitive information.

[John-in-KC]

Scoutldr,

 

ANY person can take their app directly to the Scout office and give it to the Registrar if there are concerns about who along the way handles the SSN.

 

It would mean the new volunteer would have to coordinate with the CC and the COR to get their signatures along the way.

 

That is the stock line our Registrar uses when talking to anyone who is dealing with apps... be they unit serving Scouters, Commish, or Professionals.

[CA_Scouter]

Eisely writes:

 

'I take it that the CO rep has been registered for some time and is not a new applicant. '

 

This is correct. She has been the CO for the troop since the early 90's.

 

I don't much care for the 'take it or leave it' attitude I see in some posts. If she 'leaves it' then I don't have a chartering organization. She has been a loyal and trustworthy Scouter for 15+ years. Although I understand that its required for new applicants, I wish they would just grandfather in these long time scouters in cases like this.

 

I'm in contact with our Commish. Apparantly there is a possible exception for sworn public safety officers ( of which she is.. ) who have already had background checks as a condition of their employement, but he thinks it only applies to Venturing crews or Explorer posts, but he is checking further with the DE.

 

Will keep ya posted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

6 years ins't a long enough grandfathering?

[packsaddle]

This year, huh? I was wondering why it hadn't happened to me yet. Decision time coming soon....

 

The local fishing license form 'requires' a SSN. I was buying one for my 14 year old daughter and I objected. They told me it was in order to help locate 'deadbeat dads'. I asked them under what circumstances they thought my daughter could possibly be one of those. They got mad.

So I went to the local store and filled out the form without a SSN. The clerk gave me the license. No problem.

A couple of months later, a phone call...I need to give the store my SSN or else. "Or else, what?" I asked. Or else they get in trouble with the fish and game people.

I told them to have one of those officials contact me with a real explanation of why they need the SSN and I'll give it to them. No one ever contacted me again.

 

So I called the state capital and asked. The buck got passed around forever. No one had any idea why they 'require' the SSN.

 

We've knocked this topic around before in these forums. If their other record-keeping is any guide, BSA is incompetent at managing databases. I want everyone to think, now, about how difficult it will be for BSA to fake all those memberships in the future in order to scam United Way or something. They'll have random-number generators hooked to credit checks or something. I'll probably end up with Ed's SSN and OGE will get mine. Or the whole thing will accidentally get deleted or mixed up with stock market litigation or perhaps a voter registration list in Chicago or something. Our info is probably as safe as the Ark of the Covenant at the end of the first Indy Jones movie. In a short time, no one will ever be able to find it.

 

That said, BSA doesn't need any justification. They are within their rights to 'require' the SSN as a condition of membership. They don't have to explain why. The decision is not complicated - give them the info or leave.

But so far, I'm still getting my fishing licenses, no problem.