re-inventing Boy Scouts

[2eagles]

I would like to see BSA USA look at the active programs in other countries -- they seem to keep youth involved all the way to age 24. Both of my sons are very interested in world scouting because of all the excellent programs and connection with the world of scouting.

[roguedawg]

2eagles

 

Try our neighbor up north and the CSA. We did two international campouts back in 1982 and 1984 with the Canadians. It was a good time. Of course we were in New York which is a little closer to the border than you are. One year the US hosted and the other year the Canadians did. We had a contigency of about 75 scouts. I traded loads of patches. RD

[CNYScouter]

roguedawg wrote:

 

Try our neighbor up north and the CSA. We did two international campouts back in 1982 and 1984 with the Canadians. It was a good time. Of course we were in New York which is a little closer to the border than you are. One year the US hosted and the other year the Canadians did. We had a contigency of about 75 scouts. I traded loads of patches.

 

That camp-oree still exists and is done the last weekend in September.

I'm only 1-1/2 hours form the border and my district does this instead of a local fall camp-o-ree.

 

I wouldn't be looking at our neighbors to the north for ideas. They dont have the issues with the 3Gs like the BSA and they have seen a drastic drop in their numbers.

[2eagles]

Just in the last 6 years, I have seen a significant difference in quite a few of the boys who join scouting. 1. They usually have little experience in -- almost anything other than computer games. 2. Quite a few have parents who are beyond over protective -- extreme "my son doesn't play in the snow - he will get wet and dirty" to "my mom alway pours my milk for me" Personally, I think these boys need the outdoor program more than most. It is challanging convincing parents -- they won't starve to death and are capable of planning a menu and cooking but that seems to be the norm. I know my husband and I were completely floored a few times by the lack of basic self care knowledge but we also understand that lots of scouts are city kids.

 

It is finding the balance -- we have scouts burnt out from teaching the same thing (cooking, dining fly, packing for campout, menu planning over and over to the same scouts. The older scouts don't mind it is the repetion of same skills -- it doesn't help that they did not need the same amount of guidence. They have no problem with knots, first aid etc...

Guess I am asking - any advice? for the older guys to not feel like glorified babysitters.

[Eagledad]

>>Guess I am asking - any advice? for the older guys to not feel like glorified babysitters.

[OldGreyEagle]

Heck, its not just the youth who have changed, what about the parents? Parents who are deathly araid of an axe because they have never used one. Parents who have never slept out under the stars or in a tent, Parents who have never ventured off a manicured Handicapped accessibile trail (although they are fully mobile). And adults who havent handled a rope and have no idea nor any inclination on how to tie a knot.

 

While reinventing Boy Scouts, we may have to reinvent the way we teach, train, recruit adults, because we are losing adults with second nature scout akills and they are not being replaced

[SR540Beaver]

So OGE, are we re-inventing Scouting or is Scouting adapting to the times? As I mentioned in an earlier post, many churches have changed. While the core message remains the same, dressing in a suit on Sunday morning and singing from a hymnal to a piano and organ is a snoozer for today's generation. My neices attend a church where the pastor isn't even present. They actually go to a location and watch him on a large screen. That is simply bizarre to me. A church around the corner from my house now sets up skateboard ramps on their parking lot on Wednesday nights to attract the teens. It has turned into THE place to be. The crowds are so large and have so many "non-churchy" kids who at times can cause problems, that they have to have a police presence there every week to help keep things under control. To compete, my onw church has built a youth facility with a stage, lights, smoke, mirrors, the works. They even have a snack bar and an internet access section. Many church's worship services now resemble rock concerts. My sister's church meets on Saturday night so folks don't have to bother with getting out of bed early on Sunday. Many churches have decided that they have to adapt the situation while remaining true to there core message in order to bring people in and not die. Me, I still like dressing in a suit on Sunday morning and singing hymns. But I don't like being part of a congregation of ten or twelve 90 year olds.

 

Scouting is faced with the same scenario. If you have protected children with helicoptor parents, how do you approach them to get and keep them in your program to achieve your mission? Flush toilets and hot showers? That is but one of the common changes being made in camp properties today. In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter how or where you poop on in order to gain smething out of scouting?

 

Sone folks here sincerely believe that every boy worth anything still wants exactly what Baden Powell provided 100 years ago. Some do. Many don't. Should we throw out the baby with the bath water or change the bath water?(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

[OldGreyEagle]

SR540Beaver, I am so tempted to simply answer "yes" and leave it at that, but to actually be fruitful, I am saying yes, if you want to be around, you have to adapt. The value of a mission and vision statement is that in times of change you can stay true to your mission and vision while changing the delivery of the program.

 

as you mentioned, Skatebords attract kids, its part of what kids call "Extreme" sports. Perhaps we need to emphasize more of that sort. And I don't mean Troops contruct Skateboard ramps at the scout hut, but perhaps they plan more extreme outings. What's the definition of extreme? Heck, I dont know, ask your youth. Then again, if they want to do things that tke adults with a specfic skill set that costs, you may have some challeneges, but I would rather work at challenges than wring my hands and long for the good old days, ... that was yesterday, and yesterday's gone...

[SR540Beaver]

OGE,

 

I don't profess to know the answer. I'm a fairly traditional guy in a lot of respects, but I realize that I'm slowly edging into the minority more and more in many areas. I think they call this aging. Back to my church theme. I'm perfectly fine with singing the same hymns I sang in my childhood and watching my preacher actually behind the podium instead of on the screens to his left and right. I'm 51. I have a buddy in our troop who is 35 who grew up in Baptist churches when they were still much like what I was used to. He turns his nose up at my idea of church in favor of his come as you are, rock band church. I guess there is a market for both, but his brand is gaining steady ground on mine and eventually mine will be a part of history.

 

Change will happen regardless of whether we personally choose to change with it. But we will eventually be viewed as the crazy old uncle that everyone humors.

 

Bottom line is like you said. It boils down to adapting the core mission and vision to the situation on the ground......and it continually changes. As the unofficial mantra of the USMC states, adapt, improvise and overcome.

[2eagles]

Barry -- our spl used to do all these things -- with the changing of the adult leadership -- the boy leadership has been essentially cut off at the knees. The current Scoutmaster (who also has a jamboree troop, is very active in woodbadge (teaching ect..) is a control freak who is stretched too thin. All of my (these were the first 5 boys that started the troop) are at loose ends because "gasp" they work, are maintaining good grade points and making sure they are eligible for sports scholarships, yet they receive little respect from the current leadership. I am very proud of each of these boys - young men. They are poster children for Eagle Scouts. Each one lives the scout oath and law. Their outdoor skills are excellent. Yet they are being continually put through the wringer over having jobs, playing sports or needing to spend time on studies to maintain scholarship status.

We (husband and I) have tried suggestions to new leadership but have had little success. Our young men have tried with no success -- now we are being asked to start a crew so they can have a chance to plan and be part of scouting. No problem starting a crew but the reasons why are just plain sad.

Unfortunately, when one of our scouts used a similar (and polite) tactic with the current adults over being late due to work, no light when on or even glimmered. We have always worked hard to listen to any boy and treated him respectfully and as a young man. It is sad that this seems to have been a disservice with the changing of the guard.

I find it interesting that all your suggestions are how we trained these 5. BY doing.

I taught (not scout) wilderness survival (years ago) and would step in the wilderness anywhere with these 5 young men. It is frustrating to see adults not acknowlege their skills -- even more so when the adults' skills are not even close to their level.

We have watched our troop go from (yes chaotic at times) boy lead to adult driven.

Now, I am really at the point (the one I have always been at) what is best for the boys who have come to me.

 

[Kudu]

"Sone folks here sincerely believe that every boy worth anything still wants exactly what Baden Powell provided 100 years ago. Some do."

 

2/3 do.

 

Where are you located? Arrange for me to address an assembly of sixth-grade boys in your neighborhood school with you standing next to me. You will see with your own eyes that when I challenge them with EXACTLY what Baden-Powell provided 100 years ago -- bears, rattlesnakes, matches, knives, guns, arrows, Patrol camping, and learning first aid skills to be a hero -- 2/3 of them will sign up (45 out of 60). See:

 

http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm

 

Yes, that afternoon when we call all 45 parents, about 30 of them will not allow their sons to join. But 15 will. And those 15 parents will NOT be the hover-type that come with attracting Cub Scout parents with indoor Eagle on their son's resumes.

 

This is where OGE's "Mission Statement" comes in: Greed and dishonesty to increase market-share. Pretending that the "Mission" of Scouting is to teach boys how to make "ethical choices" allows millionaire executives to pull a bait and switch with the REAL MISSION of the BSA as MANDATED in their Congressional Charter: "to promote ... the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft ... using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916."

 

The idea of "re-inventing" Boy Scouts is that if you get your brown nose far enough up the passive side of popular culture, you will discover "what modern boys really want."

 

News flash to the obese: red-blooded American boys want what American boys have ALWAYS wanted: bears, rattlesnakes, matches, knives, guns, arrows, Patrol camping with their buddies, and learning first aid skills to be a hero. The problem is that most recruiters do not stand up for that.

 

"Ethical Choices" is an oxymoron: It is not "Ethical" to dumb-down the Congressional Charter's mandate, and chasing after the whims of popular culture NEVER makes Scouting one of most boy's "Choices."

 

Kudu

(This message has been edited by kudu)

[OldGreyEagle]

Can you explain that Kudu, without insults?

 

Are you saying I am greedy and dishonest because I believe in the Mission and Vision Statements of the BSA?

 

And what is this "brown nose" you mention, can you elaborate?

 

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Kudu]

I oppose stupid ideas like "re-inventing Boy Scouts." If anyone feels that I have attacked him or her personally, then perhaps he or she is too closely associated with a very stupid idea

 

I am saying that the BSA Mission Statement is exactly what you say it is, OGE: "in times of change you can stay true to your mission ... while changing the delivery of the program." In other words, it is a tool than enables greed for a larger market share than what millionaire BSA executives believe they can get by following the rules that govern their monopoly on "Scouting" as set forth in the Congressional Charter.

 

The TRUE mission statement is this Congressional Charter which specifies "the delivery of the program" (i.e. "to train them in scoutcraft ... using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916"). Therefore the idea that Scouting is anything that teaches "ethical choices" (like sitting in front of a computer screen side by side with adults of character) is fundamentally dishonest because this bait and switch scam is by its very nature based on unethical choices.

 

The call of the wild excites 2/3 of all sixth-grade boys if you just stand up and witness "The Promise of Scouting." Boys look to men for adventure. Men who ask what "modern boys really want" are brown-nosed followers of fashion unworthy of any boy's respect.

 

"You can teach a kid about character and leadership using aerospace and computers. The secret is to get them side by side with adults of character...We've had CEOs on our board say they want to send their people to Wood Badge, our adult leader training program, because we use state-of-the-art techniques" (Robert Mazzuca, BSA Chief Scout Executive and author of re-inventing Boy Scouts).

 

[OldGreyEagle]

So I am greedy and dishonest because I beleive

 

The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

 

The Boy Scouts of America will prepare every eligible youth in America to become a responsible, participating citizen and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law.

 

There is a lot of talk about what B-P intended the Boy Scout movement to be. I have asked before that people listen to B-P himself descibe the Boy Scout Movement, I ask again, listen to B-P's Message to the Public, the 4th Speech down.

 

http://www.thescoutingpages.org.uk/speeches.html

 

B-P talks about Scouting as being a School of Charactor and spends quite a lot of time talking about how important Charactor is, and he says that Scout trains to be a Good Citizen. Lets see, Charactor and Citizenship, those two attributes sound familiar. And he talks about "The boys are eager to join in a jolly game of fellowship, with its Healthy camp life and handy pioneer training. " In the three minute or so speech he mentions camping once. He mentions "scout skills" once as Pioneer training. B-P wanted to help young men become healthy concerned citizens of good charactor. If he was around today, I am sure he would want to still produce men of Charactor who were healthy (Physcially fit) and good citizens, but I don't know as he would use the present delivery system. He would seek that what interests the boys and weave his program in that. How do I know what B-P would think or do? I don't, but what I have supposed is my opinion based on my readings of his life and listening to his words. Listen to that speech, it reveals a depth of humor I did not understand until I heard it. So before we talk to 60 boys and end up with 25% and consider that a fine days recruiting, what would B-P think of us throwing away the other 45 because they or their family do not fit the mold? Would he say that's just the way I intended or Hey guys, you missed the point?

 

Not that I do not think the Outdoor Method is antiquated, it is not. But if you made the best buggy whips the world could buy and then decided maybe also making windshield wiper blades for those new fangled automobiles, are you running from tradition or running to the future? Still make whips, but don't be afraid to branch out either.

 

By the way, does anyone know the present 5 groupings in Venturing?

 

[emb021]

"By the way, does anyone know the present 5 groupings in Venturing?"

 

The 5 groupings are what they have always been, each with their own Bronze Award:

 

* Outdoors

* Arts/Hobbies

* Religious Life (aka Youth Ministries)

* Sports

* Sea Scouts