Annual Health and Medical Record Replaces Class 1,2, &3 Health Forms

[kenk]

If they expanded this to summer camp (the form says the weight restrictions are recommended for ALL events) my days at our Troop's summer camp will have ended. According to my mapping software the hospital is 38 minutes from camp.

 

I've been overweight my entire life - since a young boy. My weight has been the classic roller coaster. I'd like to loose weight, but my history is that every time I do, well, it comes back even higher than before. I almost fear loosing weight in recent years.

 

It could very well be that my years in Scouting will be stopped by this new requirement.

[scoutldr]

Ditto, kenk. I was the fat kid in school...since birth. Growing up, Scouting was my life. In spite of my weight, I managed to have an active Scouting career, comleting three 50 milers, summer camp every year, Eagle Scout, mile swim every year at camp, ARC WSI, BSA Lifeguard and BSA Lifeguard counselor. But if my services as a leader are no longer desired because of a number on a chart...so be it.

 

What really makes me sad are the many boys who will be "screened out" of scouting as well, without being given the opportunities to succeed that I had.

[Bob White]

Many of you are misreading the requirement.

 

 

[Hal_Crawford]

BW:

Could you share the correct reading of the requirement? I am not sure totally sure which posters you are referring to but if it is the ones who are concerned about being excluded from summer camp because they are over the limit I tend to read it the same way they do. If you can shed some light that will relieve their anxiety then please do so.

 

Thanks,

Hal

[SMEagle819]

Not only am I overweight according to the chart, but apparently I can't read either.

 

As stated on the new form (first page, Part B, 5th sentence):

"It is important to note that the height/weight chart must be strictly adhered to if the event will take the unit

beyond a radius wherein emergency evacuation is more than 30 minutes by ground transportation, such as

backpacking trips, high-adventure activities, and conservation projects in remote areas."

As many others interpreted this, one cannot be more than 30 minutes from emergency services. So, this throws us "fat" people out, especially if the verbage of "strictly adhered to" is followed.

 

Page 3 of the form, right above the chart:

"Individuals desiring to participate in any high-adventure activity or events in which emergency evacuation would take longer

than 30 minutes by ground transportation will not be permitted to do so if they exceed the weight limit as documented at the

bottom of this page. Enforcing the height/weight limit is strongly encouraged for all other events, but it is not mandatory.

(For healthy height/weight guidelines, visit www.cdc.gov.)"

Again, the form clearly states here that cannot be farther than 30 minutes by ground transportation should not be allowed to participate. The wording here not only states high adventure, but any activity that is 30 minutes out.

 

Maybe someone out there knows of an instance where the BSA or a council has been sued by an overweight person who did not receive medical assistance? I wonder how this is going to be enforced by the BSA? I can see the overweight people being excluded from council or national sponsored events, but how about troop events? Very interesting that this wording is being included now on the forms. Will this now be a joining requirement as well?

 

[Bob White]

Simply put Hal the policy says "beyond a radius wherein emergency evacuation is more than 30 minutes by ground transportation"

 

It does not say medical attention within 30 minutes, it says "emergency evacuation by ground". They are not the same thing.

 

In your summer camp is there a program or campsite area where yo could not be evacuted from in in thirty minutes be on your way by vehicle or air transport to medical a medical facility?

 

I'll bet not. IS summer Camp high adventure for adults? That depends on te camp doesn't it?

 

The rules makes good sense, and if you do not meet the limits then you are probable a danger to yoiur self and others. Not because of your health altho that mightbe involved. It is because you are too large to be physically carried by others out of a remote area without endangering yourself or those trying to render aid.

 

It's fun to listen to those folks pound their chest and say "Well if they don't want me as leader then blah blah blah blah blah!" It is so easy for them to ponitificate about their self-importance because when they get injured they are not going to be the ones trying to carry that large ego down the mountain. If they were on the hauling end of things they might feel a little differently about the value of the weight limits. Certainly when their stretcher bearers got hold them up anylonger and drop them they might reconsider the hazard they weight poses as the tumble down the side of the mountain.

 

I'm one of the rollercoaster riders myself, and I knew that it was time to start the downward trend again. I am going to lose 18 lbs by Mothers Day so that I meet the limit when the boats go in the water. Who wants to join me in the effort? We can start a thread to chart the loses. No neeed to give your weight we will weigh in once a week and post our losses.

 

 

 

[Hal_Crawford]

Thanks for the clarification. I assume it means if you are within thirty minutes of a suitable helicopter landing zone then you are OK. An ambulance is ground transportation. Or do they mean that its thirty minutes on foot from where an ambulance can pick you up? Our council camp (Goshen Scout Reservation) would be OK under either criteria as there is a medically staffed (MD and RN) health lodge adjacent to a large field.

 

Of course it you are in cardiac arrest you better be within 10 minutes of a defibrillator or your name will be on the obit page in a couple of days. Fortunately many BSA camps now have AED's and hopefully the rest will get on board soon.

 

I agree with you and some of the other posters that this is good incentive to try and get to a healthier weight. I was pleased last year to see an overweight scout go start a training regimen so that he could more comfortably do a high adventure trek. He wasn't doing it because of a BSA limit but just the realization that he might not be able to keep up at the weight he was. I am fortunate that I am well under the maximum weight for my height but I would like to drop 10 to be in the recommended range.

 

 

[SctDad]

I saw where someone metioned about getting to help. I noticed in a thread a while back that everyone says they always have cell phones or the Emergency locator beacons.

 

I think that the BSA is trying to keep people from being unduly injured.

 

I know that there are a lot of people that are out there that exceed the limits. I am not saying that they are not good leaders. They are probably great leaders. I think that this is working towards being a wake up call, before one of us goes out and trys to over-do something.

 

The only thing that I disagree with is how they are setting this up, is that they are not taking into account for body shape. I am tall. THey take that into account. But I am also of Medium to large body frame. That has a factor in my body mass. I think that this may be where they take into account the acceptable body weight.

 

I like the way that they did make it a fillable form though. It will make some things easier.

[Hal_Crawford]

Filling out the form is a little buggy. When I filled in my name and DOB it filled in the side of the form with the first 2 and half letters of my first name and the first two digits of my DOB. It also put may full name in the blanks at the bottom of the 2nd and 3rd pages that say "Last Name" (no real problem with that).

 

When I saved it all the check boxes were lost. Its a small thing but it would be nice if it saved my gender and all the other things I checked yes or no.

 

Great idea but still needs some work. Huge improvement over the old forms.

[Eagle92]

Well the weight limits are an incentive for me to maintain my weight. Ever since my accident I've been in the 230+ catagory and now borderline on this chart.

 

One thing I do hope: for national events there can be waivers. I met a leader who was "overweight" by all these height/weight charts. Guy was a PT monger, always working out, and every year had to get a weight waiver b/c his BMI was extremely low.

 

 

[Liz]

"they are not taking into account for body shape."

 

I'd say they are. I have a very large body frame, and my "ideal" weight, while significantly overweight by most charts, is well within the acceptable or target range on the Boy Scout chart. Then again, my ideal weight (while about 20 lbs heavier than that of other women my height) may still be less than a man's ideal weight at my height.

 

Even given that my ideal weight is 20 lbs heavier than the standard BMI charts would indicate, I'm still a good 30-40 lbs heavier than that. So my New Year's resolution is to start exercising regularly. Thankfully, I've solved some medical mysteries in the last year or so which have previously prevented me from being able to exercise in any meaningful way. Yay!

 

On the other hand, the chart does NOT take into account body density. They really do need to have some way for people who are outside the range on the BMI to have their doctors calculate a fat/muscle ratio instead. Anybody who lifts weights or actively participates in similar muscle-building sports is going to be at risk for exceeding the charts, without having too high of a fat ratio at all.

 

-Liz

[shortridge]

The "emergency evacuation" requirement is worded EXTREMELY poorly. It could mean any of a dozen different things, and doesn't give leaders who will have to put it in practice much guidance.

 

That said, I'm 20 pounds over the allowable limit, and well out of the recommended range - that's what comes of sitting at a desk all day. This will be an excellent motivator.

[scoutldr]

"worded extremely poorly"

 

Why should that surprise anyone in a BSA publication, which apparently no one except BW can read and interpret correctly? If the concern is scouts having to carry your butt out of a wilderness area, then no one over 150 lbs should be approved, no matter how tall or healthy you are, so THAT argument falls flat. As someone earlier alluded...what is the problem this is intended to fix, and where is the data?

[evmori]

Bob White, on another forum, is suggesting there could be membership revocation associated with this!

[scoutldr]

Go ahead...make my day!

 

What's next? Requiring a weigh-in at each BOR?