Pros and Cons of Bylaws

[Bob White]

The reason is that unit committee was never designed to be determined by a majority, pluralirty , or quorum. The decisions are made by the CR and CC (Charter organization representative and Committee Chair. Then assignments are made to the committee members who act on those assignments and report their progress at the monthly committee meeetings.

 

Since committees can consist of non-charter organization members, by allowing the committee the ability to control the program by a majority vote it would essentially remove the charter organizations control of their own youth program.

 

For that reason the CO selects a CR and CC to operate their Scouting program and they are directly responsible to the CO's Institutional Head.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[emb021]

"The reason is that unit committee was never designed to be determined by a majority, pluralirty , or quorum. The decisions are made by the CR and CC (Charter organization representative and Committee Chair. Then assignments are made to the committee members who act on those assignments and report their progress at the monthly committee meeetings."

 

In parliamentary terms, we would say a unit committee is not a deliberative assembly. It's not a decision-making body. Parliamentary procedure (and hence bylaws) are intended for such groups.

 

[Lisabob]

How interesting that this topic has apparently become a hot one.

 

I submit three general observations:

 

1) It seems that most units who have these types of items (bylaws, Codes of Conduct, whatever you want to call them) are larger units who are more prone to organizational/management issues due to their size. Maybe that says something about the pitfalls of joining a large unit.

 

2) Perhaps a simple unit "FAQ" is more in line for covering things people often need to check out like "what are dues and when are they paid?" rather than some highly formal set of bylaws or troop policy book.

 

3) Maybe we need to do a better job of orienting potential new members (and their parents!) to the character and nature of our individual units, if there are frequent problems developing from a lack of shared vision or understanding of the program and the unit's expectations.

[Eamonn]

Call them what you will?

I kinda think that a big con to these is that we as an organization are about teaching and helping young people make ethical choices.

Some might say that the choice is very simple.

The person makes the choice to keep or not keep the "Rule?"

I like to think that maybe it's a little more complicated and we (All members) make the choice to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do (Or not do).

Very often there is some sort of a penalty for breaking or not keeping a law.

This seems to me to say that one rule fits all.

While maybe this does seem to make life easy??

If we are really in the business of helping young people learn to make ethical choices, understanding why not keeping the law /rule /whatever is the all important thing.

As all of us are different and each of us is an individual it is more important that we learn from our mistakes than just face the penalty.

There can be circumstances that can at times allow the leader to allow an individual either some sort of leniency toward a rule /law or maybe even at times allow this rule or law to be ignored.

I'm very happy with the expectation that everyone will try to do their best to live within the Scout Oath and Law.

Eamonn.

[IM_Kathy]

we have a "Troop Handbook" just to show you what it contains here is the contents list...

 

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Current Roster

Patrols

Youth Leaders

Adult Leadership

Tentative Schedule

Troop Meetings

Methods of Scouting

Youth Protection and Adult Leadership

Rules and Policies

Fundraising

Treasurers Policy

Prohibited Activities

Rank Advancement

Merit Badges and Merit Badge Counselors

Merit Badge List

Troop Sponsored Camping Trips

Personal Camping Equipment

Summer Camp

Map to Summer Camp

Scout Camp Site Map

Classification of Swimming Ability

 

APPENDICES

Merit Badge Counselor Application

Personal Health and Medical Record (Class 1 and 2)

Eagle Rank Requirements

Eagle Rank Application Form

Eagle Scout Service Project Workbook

Eagle Scout Reference Letter

Troop Scout Position/Descriptions

National Scout Jamboree

High Adventure Camping

[mmhardy]

 

While the BSA may not require any bylaws the IRS may. Bylaws exhibit how an organization operates. If a unit operation is ever called to question it represents the first line of on Organizational Test. Specifically:

 

"To be organized exclusively for a charitable purpose, the organization must be a corporation (or unincorporated association), community chest, fund, or foundation. A charitable trust is a fund or foundation and will qualify. However, an individual will not qualify. The organizing documents must limit the organization's purposes to exempt purposes set forth in section 501©(3) and must not expressly empower it to engage, other than as an insubstantial part of its activities, in activities that are not in furtherance of one or more of those purposes. This requirement may be met if the purposes stated in the organizing documents are limited in some way by reference to section 501©(3)."

 

See

http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=175419,00.html

 

To me this kinda settles the question..you are required to have bylaws as a 503© organization.

 

 

[evmori]

If the BSA felt that packs and troops needed bylaws, they would clearly say so and even provide guidelines/templates for them.

 

They don't.

 

The BSA doesn't require it's members own a uniform or attend training but it seems most have a uniform & attend training.

[Eamonn]

We of course are bound by all sorts of rules, regulations and whatever from different bodies.

My post was about what might be called "Rules of Discipline"

Not the rules imposed upon us by States and the like.

While a uniform and uniforming are a method of Scouting and not required (In fact none of the methods are required) It is seen as a tool that is used to help Scouts do the right thing because it is the right thing to do.

Much the same as attendance. The BSA does not lay down any hard and fast rules for attendance, but I kinda think we all are aware that Scouts who don't attend fail to receive the full benefits of the program.

There can be lots of good and valid reasons why a Scout might not be able to attend meetings. Many of these do not make him any less of a Scout.

Nearly all of us would agree that Training does help adults do a better job of understanding and delivering the program.

I am not for mandatory training because, some adults do have good reasons why they might not be able to get trained.

I would hope that District and Council Training Teams would work on finding ways of getting everyone trained. This is of course much easier said than done.

There does seem to be a move that is happening to make training mandatory in some Councils. Time will tell if this works or not.

Eamonn.

[Bob White]

That is incorrect mmhardy,

Scout units are not corporations. The COs are the corporations and any bylaws required by law would be to state and organize the structure of the CO not the unit or the unit program.

 

 

[emb021]

"1) It seems that most units who have these types of items (bylaws, Codes of Conduct, whatever you want to call them) are larger units who are more prone to organizational/management issues due to their size. Maybe that says something about the pitfalls of joining a large unit."

 

Maybe, maybe not. It could also be the result of people involved with the unit who come in with a certain level of expectation that such information is documents (good or bad), and prehaps also a result of dealing with the consequences of not having much of this information put down in writing.

 

"2) Perhaps a simple unit "FAQ" is more in line for covering things people often need to check out like "what are dues and when are they paid?" rather than some highly formal set of bylaws or troop policy book."

 

Well, what is important that these sorts of things be put down in writing. Doesn't matter to me if its a FAQ, a troop policy document or a troop handbook or the like. Having it down in writing can really avoid a lot of problems. People forget what they are told, and having things down in writing helps.

 

"3) Maybe we need to do a better job of orienting potential new members (and their parents!) to the character and nature of our individual units, if there are frequent problems developing from a lack of shared vision or understanding of the program and the unit's expectations."

 

I'd go beyond that. Troops almost need to have a 'new parent orientation' (they are usually more the cause of problems then the kids), especially when you take in a large influx of them after bridging over from Cub Scouts. In addition to the stuff you mention, you also have parents who really don't 'get' what BOY scouting is all about, especially as compared to Cub scouts. I think most people here knows what I'm talking about.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, again, I think it's best when unit committees are relatively small, friendly, and share a common vision, eh? Then yeh really don't need bylaws, but you still need "traditions" to guide actions.

 

In other cases, they might be helpful so long as they don't get too large or complex. In a few cases, as mmhardy suggests, they might be required or at least prudent, as when the CO is a "Parents of Troop X" kind of unincorporated association.

 

I also think that da notion that a CR and CC make all the decisions and then task out committee members like worker bees is somethin' that is done occasionally in cub packs, but rarely in the rest of da program. To represent it as the BSA's recommended program is pure hogwash, you will not find that in any document. Quite the contrary, the troop committee is to function as a board of directors, which most definitely is a deliberative body. And the committee, not the CC, are charged with a number of tasks (including disciplinary expulsion, approving annual program plans and budgets, etc.) which definitely require deliberation.

 

The thing about Boards of Directors, whether for a business or a NFP or a unit is that they often include "outsiders". A smart CO, like a smart NFP, like a BSA council will recruit outsiders for its committees and boards, because they bring valued perspective. So it would also be completely incorrect to say that having non-CO-members on a committee somehow means that the committee should not be permitted to do the tasks spelled out for it in the program. After all, a CC doesn't need to be a member of da CO either, eh?

 

So we conclude again having the CC dictate policy or committee action is NOT consistent with the BSA program in any way. How a committee comes to decide policy and other committee-level tasks might be just by way of friendly cooperation, long tradition, or as spelled out in bylaws or CO documents.

 

Da reason why the BSA doesn't offer more specific guidance is because this is properly a governance matter for the CO. Da BSA cannot specify to the CO how a unit should be governed or unit policy set without da risk of assuming liability for the actions of the governance model they required. So da BSA remains silent on the matter, leaving it to CO discretion. Besides, units are too diverse anyway to be able to recommend one set of bylaws.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[CalicoPenn]

A while ago, I was asked by a Troop to review their bylaws - documents that had been in existence for a while and that the committee just inherited and followed without giving them too much thought. None of the people who put the bylaws together were still involved with the Troop. (note - I'm not a lawyer, but I do have a lot of experience with non-profit organizations and bylaws and this is why I was asked to look at them). This document, like so many I've seen on Troop websites, aren't pure bylaws, but was a mix of rules and regs and Scouting info. I was given free reign to take a mighty red pen through the document. The 20 page document edited down to less than a page by the time I was finished with it. The first thing I did was remove every reference which was just a repetition of BSA documents. That took out about 15 pages. The rest was either things that just didn't apply, weren't allowable anyway (there was a clause in these bylaws that distributed the money and equipment to someone other than the CO if the unit dissolved) or added to BSA requirements. What was left were things like "Two signatures are required for every check written", etc. - more committee operational things that are generally common sense but aren't bad to have written down. The folks that asked me to look at their bylaws were stunned - at first. When I explained all of my reasons, they got it - and got rid of all their bylaws and just put together a very short document that just had minor operational rules (like the check signature rule) and other information useful to know (where the light switches and janitorial closet for the meeting room is, who has keys to the troop trailer, when the license plate for the troop trailer is due for renewal, where documents are located, etc.).

 

Using an example of a Troop Handbook as provided, here is how I would edit it:

 

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Current Roster

Patrols - OUT (Redundant - part of Roster)

Youth Leaders - OUT (Redundant - part of Roster)

Adult Leadership - OUT (Redundant - part of Roster)

Tentative Schedule - OUT (Should change every year based on PLC planning - tentative suggests adult planning/wish listing - once PLC makes schedule, hand out a calendar)

Troop Meetings

Methods of Scouting - OUT (In BSA Literature)

Youth Protection and Adult Leadership - OUT (G2SS)

Rules and Policies - OUT (In BSA Literature)

Fundraising - OUT (In BSA Literature)

Treasurers Policy

Prohibited Activities - OUT - (G2SS)

Rank Advancement - OUT (Scout Handbook)

Merit Badges and Merit Badge Counselors - OUT (Should be updated as new MBC's are recruited - both on Troop and District level - SM needs listing, not parents)

Merit Badge List - OUT (in Scout Handbook)

Troop Sponsored Camping Trips - OUT (Should change annually based on PLC planning - and added to calendar)

Personal Camping Equipment - OUT (in Boy Scout Handbook)

Summer Camp - OUT (Special event - should be part of active promotion)

Map to Summer Camp - OUT (Only people who are attending need this)

Scout Camp Site Map - OUT (Only Scouts need this - if at all)

Classification of Swimming Ability - OUT (In BSA Literature)

 

APPENDICES

Merit Badge Counselor Application - Out (Unit should be active in recruiting MBC's, not passive by including them in handbook)

Personal Health and Medical Record (Class 1 and 2)- Out (Unit should be active in getting these, not passive by including them in handbook)

Eagle Rank Requirements - Out (In Scout Handbook)

Eagle Rank Application Form - Out (Only Eagle Candidates need this -give out when needed)

Eagle Scout Service Project Workbook - Out (Only Eagle Candidates need this -give out when needed)

Eagle Scout Reference Letter - Out (Only Eagle Candidates need this -give out when needed)

Troop Scout Position/Descriptions - Out (in Scout Handbook)

National Scout Jamboree - Out (Special event)

High Adventure Camping - Out (Special event or Troop activity as planned by PLC)

 

So my recommended "Troop Handbook" would end up:

 

Current Roster

Troop Meetings (This means meeting place and time, right?)

Treasurers Policy

 

Hmmm - now I wonder if we need any of that at all. See what I mean?

 

Calico

[mmhardy]

BW with all due respect I think your wrong.

 

I'm staring at an IRS website that lists youth groups as a qualified organization. Being a unit within a church is more protected in that its considered integrated auxiliary. Since a unit Charter is granted to an incorporated 503© organization it too falls under jurisdiction as a qualified organization.

 

Regardless, having bylaws is a good protective measure. I think the BSA is silent on the topic because its not in the business of offering legal or tax advice. I think having bylaws falls under the motto of "Be Prepared"

[Beavah]

I think having bylaws falls under the motto of "Be Prepared"

 

Yah, in case it got missed in my longwinded responses ....

 

If da CO is an unincorporated association (like "Parents of Troop X..."), then I really would advise as mmhardy does that bylaws are a very, very good idea for da group.

 

B

 

[Bob White]

mmhardy

 

Not all Charter organizations are 501c-3 corporations. In fact not all are even 501c corporations. The unit is simply an activity within the charter organization it is not the corporation, in fact you can't make the unit a corporation as you do not own the Scouting program so you can't incorporate it, it's already incorporated by the BSA.

 

So if the CO is a corporation (and it does not have to be) then yes, they are required by law to have bylaws. But there is no value or purpose to them in the Pack or troop.

 

Does your local high school's basketball team have bylaws?

Does the Junior High School Band have bylaws?

Does your church's choir have bylaws?

 

Of course not, and local scout troops and packs are no different in relationship to their charter organization than the the teams, bands, and choirs are to the school or church.

 

You are using the wrong resources and the wrong examples to support your misunderstanding of the structure of scouting at the unit level.