On timeliness and tardiness....

[Buffalo Skipper]

We have a real problem in our troop with being on-time. We have, usually, 2 or 3 scouts who show up on-time (early) and everyone else shows up anywhere from 5-30 minutes late, including the SPL.

 

Last night, our SPL called me 30 minutes before the meeting to say he would not be there. I asked if he had also called his ASPL; he said he would try, and called back 20 minutes later to say he could not get ahold of him. One of the TGs was supposed to do a backpack packing demonstration, and he walked through the door 30 minutes late. I sent him home, as our "senior" scout had already worked up (with my help) and was delivering an alternate program.

 

This is one of a number of "issues" with our troop which need to be addressed. I have discussed some of these with you, others I will wait before throwing out to the wolves. Any ideas on how to correct this and get this back on the right track.

[perdidochas]

Obviously, there is some reason that most of the scouts are late. It's either that they get no value added by showing up on time, or possibly, you're meeting too early. I would bring it up at a troop meeting, and determine what the problem is.

[Stosh]

I have laid out the troops expectations for the boys to make their own decisions on concerning this issue.

 

#1 - a person is late because there is something else out there that is of a higher priority than scouts.

 

#2 - there is no other option.

 

We have chosen to start our meetings and run them on-time. If this is an issue, so be it. We aren't going to penalize those that are on time by making them wait for those who have other priorities they are taking care of.

 

Stosh

[Beavah]

Yah, worth checkin' on what perdidochas said, eh? Sometimes, yeh might find that a 7pm start just doesn't work for a lot of lads. If mom & dad are working and don't get home 'til after 5:30, dinner might not hit the table until 6:15ish, and if they want to do a family dinner and then get ready for and drive to a meeting... it can be a lot, eh?

 

Generally speakin', though, every organization has its culture about timeliness. Yours is that folks arrive in da first 15-30 minutes. Everyone's grown used to that culture.

 

If yeh want to change it, then it's a good 6 months of fight to change it, eh? Make it an expectation of your youth leaders. Start the meeting immediately on time, and make sure you're doing something fun or worthwhile right at the start which boys who come late aren't allowed to "make up". Make sure da adults are never, ever late - that they take it as a serious commitment, and they expect it of da youth leaders.

 

There has to be a reason to be on time, eh? If things start at 7:30 and if you're not there you lose, then you get there at 7:30. But if yeh know nothin' important is goin' to happen, things really won't get going until 7:50, then it's OK to dilly-dally, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

Several things. First Perdidochas, you really hit the nail on the head with the first word you wrote: "Obviously." You rattled me with that, but I needed that perspective. Thank you. Stosh, I want to create what you have said, a clear expectation. And Beavah, you describe exactly what I am trying to change, and I know it is an uphill battle.

For several years, our meetings were from 7-8pm with the expectation that nothing really got started until 7:15 or so. Meetings were disorganized at best. This was addressed at the PLC last March, with the notion that meetings should last 90 minutes. It was the PLC which decided to meet from 6:45-8:15. It is a rare meeting when things begin before 7:00.

At the September elections, a "leadership contract" was implemented which included the following statements:SPL: "Arrive at all meetings 15 minutes early..."PL: "Arrive at all meetings 10 minutes early..."TG: "Arrive at all meetings on time or early..."etc.All these have been signed by the elected troop leaders.

I will gladly bring this up at the next PLC, but how can something like this be enforced?

I do like the idea of an incentive, Beavah, but, forgive my lack of imagination, what kind of incentives can you suggest? (I tried that with uniforms last year, which worked ok, but that was with a physical reward, a bit more overt.)

 

[Eagle92]

An old fashion idea: uniform inspections by patrol. My old troop had a "Patrol of the Year" award with lots of different requirements. One of them was the uniform inspection we had at every meeting. SPL, or senior Scout present, inspected all Scouts by patrols. If you showed up late, it hurt the entire patrol as you were not inspected. The SPL and Scribe talled up all the points earned, with those Scouts not excused or tardy receiving 0 points, and divided by the total number of members in the patrol.

 

Also for activities we had two strict policies: show up at the arrival point on time, and show up in uniform. If you did not show up in uniform, you were sent home to get missing pieces. Didn't show up on time, then you may be left behind. In the 12 years I was with that troop, we left two times without people who said they were coming. Hard core, maybe, but we informed the parents and the scouts about this policy when they joined and at almost every meetingbefore an outing.

[asm 411]

Like others we start our meetings on time and we leave when we say we are going to leave. If a Scout is running late to meet us for a campout and he calls to let us know we will leave one car behind. We do not wait for Scouts who are not courteous enough to let us know he is running late.

 

We do have Scouts that come late to meetings and even campouts. Scout are active and and busy outside of Scouting. We appreciate that but we do not sacrifice the good of the many for the few or the one.

 

When I was a Webelos leader I started giving pony beads to Scouts that were on time and I had a pre-meeting activity. The Webelos loved the activities and the beads. I very rarely had a boy miss getting the on time bead. The Webelos would actually drag their parents down the hallway to be on time.

 

Our troop has other bigger hurdles to overcome right now but one thing I have been thinking about is pre-meeting activities. One thought was making Merit Badge Councilors available for the 15 minutes before the meeting. Not so much a class setting but a time when they would be easy to work with. To me this would help in two ways. The first is that we could open the door for the always pesky Citizenship and Communications Merit Badges. The Second is that the Scouts would be early under their own steam.

 

Since not everyone wants to work on merit badges I have been thinking about teaching advance Scout skills for a few minutes before each meeting might also be fun. Things like monkey fists, woggles, long splices, matchless fire starting, html, what makes a good knife... anything the Scouts are interested in. Perhaps taking the time to find out what the most popular video games are, combing the on line faqs for short cuts and dropping one or two along the way.

 

Hope this helps.

[Gunny2862]

There are families whose time theory includes the idea that people will wait for them. Ours is not one of them.

 

Our Troop starts at the start time and ends at the scheduled end time - are there still people who show up just after the opening - sure. But some of these folks WILL NOT change, the fact that it hurts the patrol isn't an incentive for the parent to leave on time.

 

I think the idea of a year long Patrol of the Year competition is a great one!

But you need to get the parent, or other driver of the Scout, an incentive also I have no idea what that might be unless you are flush with help and could afford to allow that patrols parents to not help with any outings for the year their Scout is part of the Patrol of the Year.

I might have to do it the other way and levy a "Parent Help Time Tax" on the non-Patrol of the Year group.

 

I concur with the fact that the Adults should NEVER be the cause of a delay in the start time of any activity - but I am so habitually on time that when it eventually happens I'm NOT going to feel bad about it.

[scoutldr]

Most scouts are dependent on their parents or older sibling to get them there on time. Have a discussion at the next parents' meeting and state your expectations. Could be, as others said, the time is not right. Our meetings start at 7 pm, except for COH which usually include a pot luck, and start at 6:30. During sports season, we roll with it...scouts show up when they can and we don't harrass them about it.

[Crew21_Adv]

Buffalo Skipper,

 

Greetings!

 

 

You are not alone. If I can explain about my troop.

 

It is great when all the Scouts are within walking distance of the meeting location and there are no other after school programs, or sports seasons to compete with.

 

We start on time. Program or no program. Either it will be a really good meeting, and okay meeting, or a horrible meeting, we will not know the outcome till an hour and half later. (We have cancelled the last meeting in lieu of PLC on that meeting night, so we do have a monthly plan with the youth leadership)

 

My troop has troop elections every six months. We have had one SPL, that lived a few miles from the meeting location. It depended if his father was at home or away on business. When his father was away, we could almost guarantee that mother (a nice lady) but not as enthusiastic about Scouting would drive him to the meeting. When his father was away on business, we would frequently expect a call an hour out from a meeting, and that specific SPL would state that he would not be able to attend.

 

All other SPLs and PLs that we have, have regularly been good. Sending emails two, three, even four days out letting us (SM and ASMs) know that they will not attend or fulfill their assignments.

 

Still within my troop, We can understand sports or other events, when the SPL/PLs notify us. But other tardies are split between the youth late getting into their parents car, or by the parents late getting around to driving their youth to another meeting.

 

We don't like or appreciate tardies. But we still strive to begin on time. If the SPL runs across the room, to get to the front of the assembly after the opening ceremony has began. They will normally let their parents know the need to be at the meeting just on time.

 

So.. Start on time. or continue to start on time.

Be sure the PLs have assignments for opening ceremony or pre-meeting events.

 

It may not cure all the tardies. But hopefully it will reduce the amount of tardies and they will arriving on time because they have task or assignments due.

 

Good Luck!

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[SctDad]

I had some issues with this last year and I let a lot of it slide. But this year we have 4 times as many boys and our den meetings and pack meetings have been starting on time.

 

One thing that we have been doing is playing games before the meeting. Just trying different group games and things seems to be working. We stop the games 5 minutes before the meeting starts so that everyone can get to their assigned den areas. (Yes all our dens meet at the same place) Then we do our openings and actvities. If you are late, then you are late.

 

After the first of the year, we are going to start doing crafts and stuff before the meetings. I have a bunch of Build and Grow kits from Lowes. Hammers, aprons and Goggles. we will be setting things up like this. 6:15 I will be at the meeting hall or another leader with a key. The kits will be available at 6:30. at 6:50 clean up will begin. All the boys will have some of the plastic coffee cans (I have saved plenty of them) to store their projects in. They will also put the hammers, aprons and goggles back at this time. This should not take long.

 

THis activity counts for most levels in some kind of advancement. They will also be able to show them off at the pack meetings, because these were activities that they completed. Once boys stsart seeing that there are thing to do before the meeting, and they cannot do them because they show up at 6:50 or later, then that should help to improve timeliness. I am also going to start using some of the activities from Program helps and BALOOs Bugle to have them do before the meeting.

 

I am also going to try to make sure that I keep things different so that there is a variety and the boys do not know what every activity is. I will still probably use games and stuff.

 

I will let everyone know how this works after January.

[CalicoPenn]

I wouldn't mind a little more information on this, particularly the level/ages of the lads that are consistently late. My impression, based on the mentions of the SPL, ASPL and Troop Guide is that it is the older lads that are more often late. Are those that are late mostly of high school age, where there is more demand on folks time and a 6:45 pm meeting may not be realistic though a 7:30 meeting may be?

 

When I was a Scout, my Troop's meeting started at 7:30 and ended at 9:00. At first, I thought we could have started earlier - 7:00 or 6:30 even - and then when I started high school, I learned what that 7:30 start time was really all about - keeping the older lads, who were the mentors to the younger lads, active. Had my Troop met any earlier than 7:30, I would have been late 90 percent (or more) of the time. Between sport practice (Swim Team) and theater (technical) activities, I usually didn't get home from school until 6:45 - and I needed some time to grab a quick shower and something to eat before heading to the Troop meeting. I realized that was true of all those older Scouts that were my mentors when I was younger too.

 

I love the PLC concept, but this may be one of the few times when I would suggest that the PLC not make the decision - not without significant feedback from the rest of the Troop members, including committee members and parents. This should be, using a consensus process as much as possible, a decision for the whole Troop - and one made one time, with the expectation that every new Scout and Scout Family will know the meeting times. I would add, however, one caveat - though not truly democratic, I believe I would give a bit more weight to the needs of the active older Scouts, and program leaders (SM & ASM's) than the rest of the folks - this could be one of those cases where if the majority thinks staying with 6:45 is fine, but the majority of older Scouts and program leaders can only truly commit to 7:30, then 7:30 is the best, most ideal time for the Troop - and that's what your looking for here, the best, most ideal time for the Troop meeting, not the majority rules time. Losing the senior scouts and program leaders for even just half an hour can play havoc on a quality program - as you have already experienced.

 

Final thought - just cause it's the first thing that actually came to mind when I read the thread title. Nowhere in the Scout Law does it say "A Scout is Punctual" (very wide grin)

 

Calico

 

[John-in-KC]

1) The youth themselves have to make the buy-in, both in creating the time horizons and the penalties. If you do it, they won't buy in.

 

2) It's worth asking, through the PLC, to see WHEN families can get Scouts to meetings. 645 may be a bridge too far.

 

3) What feedback do you get from your Committee? They can be a sounding board...

 

 

[Bob White]

Buffalo Skipper

Are you familiar with pre-opening activities? If so what would be some of the things you have used?

[evmori]

If I only learned one thing (I learned lots) from my dad it was to be on time.

 

Starting times for meetings & events are in place for a reason. By consistently showing up late to unit meetings is, to me, not being courteous and therefore not living the Scout Law in your everyday life. Sounds like a Scout Spirit issue. Tie these type of things to advancement & I'll bet you the late arrivees drop.