LDS?

[SMT224]

Could someone clearly and concisely articulate the sabbath requirements and related issues for LDS Scouts and how that impacts their camping? I have vague bits and pieces, but really do not understand the whys and wherefores.

 

Our Troop is sponsored by a Catholic Church, but only about 1/3 of the Scouts are Catholic. We nevertheless taylor our camping trips to ensure Scouts can always get to Sunday Mass. A near-by LDS Troop recently folded, and should some of those Scouts consider joining our Troop, what accommodations might we need to make? Or is that even possible? Are LDS Scouts required to only be in an LDS sponsored Troop?

 

Thanks!!

 

 

[Eamonn]

I really don't know the correct answer.

But if the LDS church is just down the road, I'd walk down the road and ask them!

I bet they know.

Eamonn

[scottmphoto]

I am a non-church member LDS Scoutmaster. In our troop, the Scouts are not allowed to camp or travel on Sunday, although the Bishop can make special allowances twice a year for something special, like going to Philmont or Jamboree.

I grew up in a community troop and we always went camping on Friday night and came back Sunday. It's a little frustrating for me still (I have only been Scoutmaster since July) that our troop goes out on Friday night and has to come home on Saturday. There are some great 20-mile hikes on the Ozark Highland Trail that I would love to get the boys out on but I can't because they would have enough time to complete the whole section, especially this time of year with it getting dark so early.

It's hard to get the boys the nights needed for camping requirements for their advancement but that is one thing that I can't really do anything about.

 

 

 

[emb021]

The LDS actually publishs a booklet on how they manage their scouting program.

 

I'm non a Mormon, but have had some exposure to things.

 

The Mormon's run their scout troops as part of their overall program for youth boys. Because of how they divide their young men, this does present some problems. Thus the 11 years olds are put in a special Blazer Patrol, and most troops are for 12-13 year olds. 14-15 are in Varsity Teams, and 16-17 are in Venturing Crews (which are not co-ed).

 

Because the units are part of their boy's youth program, the boys have responsibilities at church on sunday, hence why they don't camp on sunday expect for special occasions. So the troops usually leave on Saturday night to be back home for Sunday, WB courses for LDS scouters end on Saturday, etc.

 

Hope this helps. Any LDS scouters, please feel free to correct any mistakes I made.

[ScoutNut]

From what I have read, the problem is not so much the camping on Sunday, as it is the traveling.

 

If you have practicing LDS youth in your Troop, they will be able to camp Friday night, do the activities Saturday during the day, and then leave Saturday evening in enough time to arrive home before Sunday.

 

However, most practicing LDS families would more likely find another LDS Troop in their Stake to transfer to before they would transfer to a non-LDS Troop.

 

If any of the boys from the folded Troop does transfer to your Troop, I would talk to the parents about their needs and restrictions.

 

[emb021]

Some other things to keep in mind.

 

Many churches sponsor scout troops. Most run them to be open to all youth, not just members of their faith/church. This is because most churches run the troop as part of their 'outreach' effort instead of their church youth group effort. I was involved in a troop at a United Methodist church. I and my brothers were the only members of that church who were involved in the troop, and the religious backgrounds of the other members varied.

 

We had a scoutmaster who was a Mormon, whose son was also in the troop. The local LDS church later started a troop, but he didn't get involved until he was 'called' to be their SM (that means the Bishop gave him that assignment to do). His son still remained with our troop by his decision to get his Eagle. While he was our SM, we never had an issue with being away on Sunday (we always had done an ecumenical church service on Sunday).

 

The LDS church's troop was the only one in that particular area of my town, so a lot of non-LDS kids were in the troop. This caused some friction, due to the way the LDS Church runs their troops (as previously mentioned). Eventually, the non-LDS kids were spun off in their own troop.

 

 

[SMT224]

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

 

[Sarge]

This is not meant as a religious bias. I am all for individual beliefs and freedom of religion.

But if a LDS youth joins a non-LDS Troop, I think it is absurd of anyone to expect you to alter your activities to fit *just* them.

If you have your program set up already, it is what it is.

If their religious beliefs don't allow participation of one or two persons, that cannot be your problem.

The experiences of the group should not be compromised for the needs of a few.

[asm 411]

" I think it is absurd of anyone to expect you to alter your activities to fit *just* them."

 

In the fall we have many Scouts involved in Football and Band. It used to be we would not camp on Friday's "because no one would come." This year we did camp on Friday night with the understanding that those who could not make it on Friday could show up early on Saturday morning. About half the campers came out on Friday night in Sept and Oct. In our case the committee organized the transportation.

 

In the one or two situation there is no reason that the Scouts parents can not transport them home early.

[emb021]

"But if a LDS youth joins a non-LDS Troop, I think it is absurd of anyone to expect you to alter your activities to fit *just* them."

 

Why would you expect that if an LDS youth joins a non-LDS Troop that there would be such an expectation?

 

As I noted, my troop (chartered to a UM Church) had an LDS SM along with his son, who became our SPL. This did not change how we run as a troop. We still camped out till sunday around noon. It was never an issue for us.

 

My Lodge advisor around the same time was LDS. This didn't change our how lodge functioned.

 

[ScoutNut]

I don't think that activities have to be altered all that much.

 

Leave on Friday evening.

 

Require that a parent of the Scout who must leave early either attend, or come to pick him up.

 

Make sure most of the relevant activities occur on Saturday.

 

Give the Scout Patrol chores on the set-up end instead of take-down.

[alki]

I'm an LDS Scouter. emb021 explained the Sunday issue very well.

 

Here's an excerpt from the booklet mentioned: "The [LDS] Church does not approve of hiking or camping trips on Sunday. [LDS] Scouts and other [LDS] youth groups should not travel to or from camps or youth conferences on Sunday." I added the "LDS" to clarify that the audience of this booklet is adult leaders of LDS-chartered units.

 

LDS Scouts are not required to be in an LDS unit, just as non-LDS Scouts are welcomed in LDS units. Many LDS Scouts (in LDS units) are co-registered in non-LDS units.

[jmwalston]

"Many LDS Scouts (in LDS units) are co-registered in non-LDS units."

 

What do you mean by "co-registered?" Are you referring to a Scout also registered in a Venture Crew?

[emb021]

"What do you mean by "co-registered?""

 

Means they are registered in 2 units. However, AFAIK, a scout can't be registered in 2 scout troops. They can be registered in a troop and a crew, and even multiple crews.

 

"Are you referring to a Scout also registered in a Venture Crew?"

 

There is no such thing as a 'Venture Crew'. You mean "Venturing Crew". Yes, there is a difference.

 

[Trevorum]

Several years ago, we had two LDS brothers in our troop who told me they were also registered in their LDS troop. That took me by surprise, but they said it was not unusual. They liked our program better, but were nonetheless required to register with the other unit also.