Troop-Loaned Gear that Walks Away

[Beavah]

Basementdweller had an excellent question which was gettin' lost in da camouflage threads. Here it is:

 

I have purchased sleeping bags and given them to the boys only for them to not bring them to the next event or their parents/siblings selling them on craiglist. I saw the ad myself after a tip from another parent. a fifty dollar sleeping bag being sold for 10 bucks on craigslist. I was pretty ticked off about it. I called and told the parent about it, and their response was well you gave it to him and we really don't have anywhere to store it. We sold candy bars and the boys used their own bags and backpacks, same deal, some used them to haul books back and forth to school.

 

I was considering purchasing them for each boy tagging them with their name for use during their tenure with our Pack and Troop. Then storing them myself. Is there anything else to consider?????????? At this point there isn't too many maybe 4 or 5 boys.

 

I am just trying to ensure a quality outdoor experience, nothing worse than being cold while your trying to sleep. I have already purchased half a dozen large duffle bags so the boys can put their clothing in those instead of carrying trash bags with their gear in it. I get the bags back before we get back to the charter org.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

I hate to say this, because we want our Scouts to be fully responsible young people...

 

They ... are ... children.

 

They're under 18. From what basementdweller wrote, I'm not sure these folks were BabySitters of America types.

 

We can work with the youth members all we should, rightly and properly, but if we're not cross-communicating with the adults, things will happen.

 

Loaning out gear comes with someone being a guarantor. That someone should be the parent. They need to know what's being done and why.

 

My thoughts.

[Eagle92]

That is a very good question. Honestly I've never had to deal with that issue. However I've dealt with troop equipment getting broken and a tent getting set on fire. Depending upon the circumstance, those responsible for the damage, either individuals or group, were responsible for the equipment.

 

Now I do know of one unit that will get stuff like packs and sleeping bags, and "sell" the item to the members. That way it gives the member a sense of ownership and responsibility. They then can keep the item when they leave scouting, or sell it back, and get their money back. And if the scout in question can't afford the price of the item, they can do one of the unit fundraisers to get the money.

 

 

I guess my JROTC experience would best be applicable. We would be issued uniforms for the school year which were turned in at the end of the year, which would be allowed to take home. If we were on the drill team or color guard and issued a rifle, an officer or SNCO and issued a sword, or attending a "field exercise" and were issued field jackets, compass, canteens sleeping bags, etc. We would have to sign out for them and return them once finished. With the field gear, this usually entailed some folks getting to school early and having everything organized so that folks walked in, got their gear, and packed up.

 

Just make sure that whatever you do, everyone knows what is going on in advance and agrees to the terms. Just prior to me becoming a DE, my district received $5000 worth of canoeing equipment: canoes, paddles, jackets, and trailer for the youth of the district. It was supposed to be "district owned." Now we all know that districts don't own anything, it's the council that owns stuff. SO the volunteers that arranged for this donation had the equipment given to one of the local troops with the proviso that any unit in the district could use the stuff, that way council couldn't come in and take the equipment away. Long story short, peopel had problems getting the stuff from the troop holdign the equipment, and when the troop folded, the CO took over the equipment.

 

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Beavah Thanks for spinning my Question.

 

First off this has absolutely nothing to do with our troop or Pack. Our Pack and Troop is extremely poor. I have purchased a number of tents out of my own pockets and enough sleeping bags and pads for the boys who did not have. I never in my wildest dream would have believed that parents would sell their boys gear.

 

The first camping trip I went on after joining the Pack...we did not have enough tents or room for all of the boys, most just had blankets off their beds to sleep with....Not bad at summer resident camp with a cot.....this was April, it was rainy and cold. Long story short, I gave up my tent and put 6 boys in it and swore that it would never happen again under my watch. I spent a very wet and cold night sleeping in my fold up chair. Plastic sheets never stay put. So, I purchased 6 tents that were factory seconds and we are using those. I also purchased 10 sleeping bags and I got some foam mats donated.

 

The tents and mats never went home. The bags did, Lets face it I just can't store everything.

 

Sooooo, if I get some more bags, other than laundering them, should I sanitize them in any other fashion?????? or is it best to "assign" one to each boy for his tenure with our group and then not worry so much about it.

 

Eagle that is a terrible story, hopefully the CO gave the equipment to an other troop. Far as fundraisers go, been their and done that.....Remember these are cub and not boy scouts. Too be real honest the older brothers, sisters and parents, if you want to call them that, of the boys involved are real pieces of work. The boys involved are lucky to get clean cloths and an occasional hot meal. But they are really great kids.

 

 

 

 

 

[Stosh]

Obviously some communication would have been better up-front with this situation. If the parents were trying to sell other people's property on craigslist, then it is a criminal act which can be prosecuted. If the items were given to the boys, they can decide what they wish with what belongs to them. Why was this not properly identified as to actually who owned the property and what is expected when a certain time period has passed.

 

What was said to these boys? Was it a gift or a loan and was this explained properly to the parents (They are the one's ultimately responsible for their safekeeping if it was loaned equipment.)

 

A very large magic marker goes a long way to mark this property as to who actually owns it. If it is marked the property of Troop #XX, Anytown, USA and when it is seen on craigslist being sold, the police can step in a retrieve the items in question as evidence.

 

"I have purchased sleeping bags and given them to the boys only for them to not bring them to the next event or their parents/siblings selling them on craiglist." It sounds like these items were a gift and they can sell them if they wish.

 

"I was considering purchasing them for each boy tagging them with their name for use during their tenure with our Pack and Troop." Still sounds like they are the property of the boys if the boys' names are on them.

 

If one is NOT giving these items to the boys, mark them the property of the troop or put your own name in them. Number them so it can be identified as to which boys received which numbered item. This is what a Quartermaster is responsible for.

 

It sounds just to vague to make sure who owns what and what expectations are attached to these items.

 

Stosh

 

[jmwalston]

"If one is NOT giving these items to the boys, mark them the property of the troop or put your own name in them. Number them so it can be identified as to which boys received which numbered item. This is what a Quartermaster is responsible for."

 

Reading Basementdweller's post gives me the impression that this occurred with a Pack, who don't have Quartermasters. It would probably be the responsibility of the Outdoor Chair of the Committee, if there was someone assigned to that position.

[SctDad]

Here is the deal with equipment as I see it. If I issue a sleeping to a cub scout, then I am issuing it to them for camping with our troop. TO have them turn around and then sell it on craigs list, that is just rude, and may be illegal, depending on how you you issued it to them.

 

Now is I GAVE it to them, and then they decided to sell it, then they are responsible for having one on the campouts. I'm sorry, if you sold it, thats your fault. I guess you would not have one, and if it is cold, then I would have to have the parents come and pick up the boy for safety sake. And tell them, that they need to buy a sleeping bag before they can go on anymore. Plain and simple. If they sold equipment that was not theirs to sell, they are to give the troop/pack enough to replace it, and would probably be asked to leave the unit. Sorry that the boy gets the effect, but they may see their parents for who they really are.

[Basementdweller]

Blake......some outstanding suggestions...... I will put my name on them and number them. I will never send them home again. Sad it had to come to it. Yes I wrote the boys names on tags attached to the stuff sack. Never thought anything about it. I spoke to a couple of the parents but not all about the bags.. My fault.

 

I understand that this could/should possibly be a life lesson and if the boys didn't have it bad any way I probably would enforce it in such fashion.

 

 

Outdoor committee chairman...oh I wish. This pack is run by about 6 adults. Again working poor area of town. lots of single parents and grandparents taking care of kids.

 

Yes I am a softy

[shortridge]

It is sad when Scouts show up for a campout with their clothes and blankets in a plastic trash bag. It is heartwarming when a leader or fellow Scout helps them out.

 

You're not a softy - just someone who's dedicated. It sounds like you're doing everything in your power to make sure these kids have a good, positive Scouting experience. Bless you!

[Stosh]

Naw, I don't think you're a softy, but sometimes it takes a little more communication to make sure everyone is on the same page. If one wishes to help out the troop by providing LOANER equipment so that the boys have some nice things to camp in, that's admirable!! But it makes sense to everyone concerned that these items are to be turned in when the boy is done with them so that some other scout can make use of them. The boys can take it home if they have a place to store it. If not, just keep it for them when the next campout comes around. It's not an issue of having nice things for the boys, it's just a matter of making sure everyone knows exactly how the program works. I can use this equipment, and when I'm done I return it. No big deal. This happens every time I borrow something from someone else. It's not a gift, I borrowed it and it is expected that when I'm done, I return it in good shape or buy another one to replace it.

 

Now, if the SM or DL gives me a gift of equipment, that is a whole different story.

 

I just think it's necessary that with that much $$$ involved, that everyone fully understands the program so there are no hard feelings on anyone's part.

 

Stosh

[IM_Kathy]

one thought on the gear I have is finding out if your CO or any other church or organization would have some extra storage room that you could use. Then you could store the bags, pads, backpacks, etc... I would number them 1-whatever. while the boy is in troop/pack/den he uses the same number every time he goes out - that way you don't have to mess with washing all the bedding after each outting unless they get wet/dirty.

 

I personally have no more storage room either... I have my own gear, my son's, and my daughter's plus as Girl Scout SUM I have a bunch of stuff stored for that too... my shelves are overloaded!

[Beavah]

Yah, I've seen lots of issues with this over da years, eh? As a general rule, anytime a kid takes somethin' home for more than a few days it becomes "theirs", but not really "theirs." Gets lost in da basement. Gets put away wet and turned into a mildewed monster. Remains stuffed and compressed, whatever.

 

I reckon to keep things clear, there are only two types of gear: troop gear, which has troop numbers on it and gets issued each campout and returned promptly at da end of each campout, or personal gear which the lad/family actually pays their own money for.

 

I have seen a couple of troops and one crew also offer "rental gear", though. Boys pay some $ and a deposit up front for the purpose of renting gear, which must be turned in clean and serviceable after some period of time. Failure to turn it in means they get billed for replacement, turned in unserviceable or damaged they lose their deposit. Da one troop I knew also allowed boys to buy their rental gear in installments. In other words, when their total rental cost over time equaled the unit's purchase price, they received the equipment as their own. The one crew I used had an adult who often funded gear purchases himself; crew would pay him back from da rental charges and when paid off the gear became the crew's. Some arrangement like that might be possible for yeh to consider, even with "rental contracts" to aid with communication.

 

Beavah

 

[Eamonn]

I know, I'm going to sound like the Grinch that stole Christmas!!

While there is of course "Troop Equipment".

Equipment that belongs to the Troop (Or the CO??)

This stuff (Whatever it might be) is the responsibility of the Troop Quartermaster or some other willing adult. He or She is charged with looking after it and ensuring that it is where it is supposed to be and in good working order.

Or maybe informing the SM and the Troop Committee that it need replaced.

The Troop Committee needs to ensure that all Troop equipment is stored in a safe place.

Allowing Scouts to take this stuff home with them and not return it in a timely manner? Just shouldn't happen!!

I have never liked the idea of giving a Scout something for nothing.

It seems to me to not be in keeping with "A Scout is thrifty".

Scouts need to feel that they do have an investment in the stuff that they use.

They need to feel that the Troop equipment belongs to them. They do this by raising the money for the equipment.

They need to have ownership of their own personal equipment.

A Scout who has saved the money to buy his own uniform is going to take better care of it than a uniform that was just handed to him.

Adults in Scouting can not and should not be buying equipment for Scouts.

They are not in any way expected to do so and when they do? They are not teaching the Scout anything. At least nothing worth while!!

Cub Scouts should not in my opinion be going camping until it is warm enough that a couple of blankets is enough to keep them warm.

I'm not keen on the idea of loaning sleeping bags.In my opinion it is like sharing dirty socks. The bag would need cleaned after each and every use.

Bags are not that expensive. A summer bag can be bought for about $25.00 ( Less than a carton of smokes and about the same cost as a case of adult beverages)

If a family really is unable to afford to buy the stuff that is needed for the unit to provide the program that is needed.

It is far better that the unit provide the Scout opportunities to earn the cash and then buy the stuff from his Scout Account.

I know this sounds a little rough and tough.

Maybe I should add a few "Bar Humbug's"?

Eamonn.