What is the most dated scouting skill requirement?

[perdidochas]

When was the last time anyone really needed to whip the end of a rope?

 

From my understanding, some of the latest high tech ropes (i.e. Spectra and  dyneema) char rather than melt, so their ends need to be whipped. 

[SctDad]

"When was the last time anyone really needed to whip the end of a rope?"

 

AActually at our last campout. I could have easily melted the end of the cheap plastic rope that was coming unraveled, but I decided that while I was sitting around the campfire that I would fix it permanantly. and yes I even considered making an eye splice.

 

As for the Axe issue.

 

Maybe out west they frown on the use of ground wood for fuel, but that is not a major issue in this part of the county (East). And yes you can go and buy bundles of fire wood from the store that is already split. But when it comes to starting the fire I find it easier to take a piece of that split fire wood and split off smaller pieces to use for kindeling. a lot more effective than just cramming in more paper and dryer lint.

 

I think that the reason why a lot of people are getting away from some of the "outdated" skills like most are talking about, is they just do not know how to be creative. Why not learn how to navigate without a GPS. Remember, batteries fail, and according to Murphy, right when you need them the most.

[OldGreyEagle]

When was the last time anyone spoke Latin?

Why is it taught today?

 

I have been called upon to whip ropes many times. And people stand in fascination as I do the loopy windy and pull thing. They are amazed and impressed, it took me a long time to realize not everyone could do it

 

[DugDirt]

Grey Eagle, I never studied Latin,(public school education) but wish I had the chance. Everyone I met in college and career that (was forced) to study Latin said it gave them a better command of all languages in general (especially the romance languages).

 

However, I did study Spanish for 3 years and I remember reading that foreign language students scored signifcantly higher on SAT Verbal skills - indicating better spoken and written language skills.

 

Just like a boy who has mastered safe use of an axe can be relied upon to be more mature with other hazardous tools, have better hand/eye coordination and be quite a useful hand in many situations - in addition to the direct benefits of the skill.

 

The logic that "around here we don't need em" is flawed because 'around here I don't ever need snowshoes, but I would not deflate the importance placed on them by an Alaskan - nor would I turn down an opportunity to learn to use them well - in the event I may be in that environment. "Be Prepared".

 

Many authors have written about the importance of "tradition" in maintaining a strong healthy culture, and the negative impacts (to individuals and the group) of abandoning traditional skills. I see this in what is being discussed here.

 

The Leave No Trace attitude has gone too far and is too widely applied. LNT has its proper place and reasons, but I sense that the basics of the outdoor ethic have been twisted into something dangerous to Scouting traditons and the well being of the boys.

 

I see the trick played here and elsewhere by trying to make people think it's wrong to teach youngsters to do what we did as a boy, but there is nothing wrong with it. We (Scouting ) are strengthened by handing down traditions and old skills and of course a good adult leader should be open to new things (heck, we invented most all of them). I'm open if it serves a good purpose.

 

Another related and increasingly studied problem is that today's boys are being taught to be users (not developers or "pioneers"), just like in some ways they are being taught to be watchers and not do-ers. Balance is needed with knowledge - stars, sun, comapss, map, and GPS are "all connected" and the "connection" can not be understood if one jumps to the GPS and claims success.

 

Some people (maybe like Bob White) will have them watching TV screens with pictures of campfires and not building them while justifying it's safer for them and the environment.

 

To sum it all up, most outdoorsmen and even non-outdoors types with sound judgement and common sense will consider the postion advocated by Bob and beaver absolute silliness.

 

I came to this site a while back inquiring and researching on some Scout things and have come back as I cleaned out my mailbox. It seems that this would be a drain on my time. I know I won't convince you to think like me. Don't expect me to be like you.

 

My son is not in Boy Scouts yet, but when he gets in there I will be sure to help teach the skills I learned as a Scout and use now when we pursue various outdoor activities (mostly camping and hunting).

 

After perusing this and other recent threads I am likely a minority, and responding to some of the silly (might I say left leaning) stuff espoused here can take a lot of time.

 

So thank you for reading this. Sorry it is so long. I wish I could see you all, because as I hop around and read thsi stuf I am developing my own pictures of you. I wonder how close I am.

 

Dug

 

[SctDad]

Dug

 

WELL SAID

 

I have a hard time disagreeing with you, in fact I would like to meet you sometime and shake your hand. I guess I think like you on many facts and thoughts.

 

Maybe we can talk by e-mail sometime.

[Eagle92]

Omnia Gaulia divisa est tres partes.

 

Yep I took three years of Latin, and it helped tremendously not only in English and Spanish, but also with a few of my history courses, helps to read primary documents in the original languauge, and with my current job. Since I work at a hospital, the research I do for the MDs, PharmDs, and RNs use a lot of Latin. you'll be surprise how much Latin is used in the medical field.

 

In reference to whipping rope, I will be doing some of that this weekend with some hemp rope I got.

 

As for not burning wood and LNT, as has been posted previously on another thread, it is an ethic that you can use to various degrees depending upon the situation you are in. Heck the current edition of the Fieldbook makes reference to the advantages and disadvantages of backpacking stoves and campfires. While some situations do require you to not use fires, like when NC was in a drought a few months back, right now we've been encouraged to build and use them, in the proper locations of course.At the local camp in our council, we have been encouraged to use brush to help clear out some of the areas. Excess brush on the ground is a cause of forest fires as some uber-conversationalists are slowly learning. Excess brush will allow a minor fire to spread rapidly, and do more damage than if one did some minor clear of brush periodically.

 

And if you can believe it or not, I've been given free reign to cut down living trees at another camp I worked at, and we used axes and saws to do it, so axes do have a viable use still. had a minor problem with some tree pest that infected some trees at the camp and surrounding properties. State foresters came in and marked trees that need to be cut down, basically leaving a tree every 30' or so. Yes the camp was somewhat denuded, but it was better that than let the pest get to the trees. not a pretty site to see infected trees.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[Mr Irish]

1st post

Since my son has learned to work flint, he says if he needs an axe he'll knap one. Of course this is the kid that pulled a mouse out a trap in basement and skinned it in preparation for a trip to the historic fur trading post. We're big fans of old time skills.

[scoutldr]

With all of my science degrees, I still can't come up with a good reason not to pee on a tree, when all the animals do it. If Nature is that sensitive, then we shouldn't be there at all. I did hear a fear expressed that, once everyone starts dosing themselves with Tamiflu, it will eventually end up in the waste water stream and the wild avian flu virus will quickly develop resistance to it.

[Adam S]

Just my 2 cents, While somethings may be used infrquently or done different today, there is no harm in learning an alternate method, at the least they learn a second way to do soemthing and if they are sharp they start realizing a few things

 

1. while some tasks get simplified, it is good to know a workaround in case technology breaks. Be Prepared!

2. Sometimes there are more then a few ways to do something, they might realize that sometimes there are a couple ways to think about something and still be "right" A great lesson in respecting others belief's

 

As to knots in specific, as a Firefighter I used knots EVERY DAY, I had to tie them in hostile environments, with zero visibility wearing fire gloves. I had the pleasure to serve as Chief and while everyone reached a level of proficiency, with men who were scouts you could tell it was inate, their hands made the knot, not their head!

 

[eghiglie]

In a high tech world, there are many things that appear to be out dated and should be removed. However, there is the tradition of keeping these things in and teaching the skills to the next generation. Many organizations have this and it lends to the character of the group.

 

As far as knots and rope work goes, I think that there are as relevant now as when they were invented. They come in handy for many things and they should live on forever.

 

For my son the outdoor experience has been to learn how to do without and appreciate what we have, like AC, heat, refrigerators and so on. Recently he attached some boards to his fort using lashings.

 

When I was in a Troop many years ago, we were taught how to sew back on shirt buttons and how to temporarily hem pants. It was not a requirement but it helped us be just a little bit more independent.

 

[sailingpj]

Ok, now I have an axe too grind on several of the topics previously discussed here.

 

First off, you never want to take your pants off when you fall in the water, or any of your clothes for that matter. Six years racing on dinghies in San Francisco bay have taught me that any clothes are better than none when you are wet and cold. Unless you were one of the crazy people who race with a full wetsuit on all day, it is rare not to go home mildly hypothermic. I've been there more times than I can count. If you know that you are going to be in a place where you think you will need flotation to get to shore safely then you need to be wearing a PFD. That will do more for you in the end because it is another layer against the cold water.

 

Now, that statement

 

"When was the last time anyone really needed to whip the end of a rope?"

 

Whenever I get a new piece of line, if it isn't already done I will whip it. Even if it is line that can be heat sealed, it just looks better and lasts longer if you put a proper whip on it.

 

Now for knots, this may be slightly skewed by me living on a sailboat, but there isn't a day that goes by when I don't use knots for something other than tying my shoes. There are somethings that velcro and bungee cords don't work on. It is horrible to be looking and find that you don't have the right sized bungee.

[sherminator505]

First of all, to Adam S and Mr Irish, welcome to the campfire!

 

I really don't see the requirements as being dated. You may wonder why you ever bothered to learn something until you find yourself in a situation where that skill comes in handy. It's happened to me a number of times.

 

One requirement I'd like to see return: First Aid merit badge for First Class. It is good for safety reasons, and it introduces the Scout to the merit badge process if he hasn't already been properly introduced.

[JerseyScout]

Lashing is definately not outdated. Want to impress the heck out of the Cub Scouts? The Scouts can lash together a monkey bridge. My mother has a picture of me climbing across one of these as a WEBLOS scout when visiting a potential Boy Scout troop. Guess which troop I joined?

 

Want to show up the entire council/district what can be done with rope, poles, guts, and some planning? The Scouts can lash together some of the most ridiculous gateways and towers known to man. As a Scout, we had one of two results from every gateway we we ever built at a camporee. Either a) we got first place or b) we were disqualified because they didn't think that the boys did or could build it (we planned an executed every gateway ourselves). Know what happens to my boys now with the same troop? Exact same results. We had one of the founders of our troop, now in his early 80s, stop by last year. He told a bunch of stories, one of them being how the kids had their gateway eliminated because "they couldn't have built that" back in the mid-60s. The more things change, the more they stay the same =)

[Mr Irish]

Thanks for the welcome.

 

This past weekend while we were at Scout Day at the Renaissance Festival (more outdated skills displayed there, smithing, leeching, glassblowing), I helped a vendor right his tent that had been knocked in the recent storm. When we saw that the screws had pulled out from the joist hangers he was using on his 2x4 tent "poles", it was lashing to the rescue. Rope will flex in the wind.

[scoutingagain]

"When was the last time anyone really needed to whip the end of a rope?"

 

As noted above, anyone in a maritime environment,especially a sailor uses whipped rope all the time for the reasons given as well as knots. It is the sign of a mariner, or maybe a former scout.

 

I have yet to be on a camping trip setting up a tent or fly that uses a line and not use knots. I find the little plastic slides, velcro etc. provided far less reliable.

 

As for burning wood, here in New England many homes have returned to wood burning stoves. The basic skills of cutting and splitting wood are practiced throughout the region and scouts and former scouts I'm sure do it better and safer than the average guy that goes to Home Depot and buys tools or even a log splitter.

 

Are there some outdated skills? I'm sure there are. First aid skills that have been updated with newer more effective skills come to mind. i.e. CPR instead of some of the older resusitation methods. The most useless skill I now posess is nowing how to use a card reader for inputing computer data comes to mind.

 

 

 

SA