Is there such a thing as the ideal Troop?

[Eamonn]

I know a few adult leaders who get very defensive when anyone has the nerve to mention that they maybe are not doing things as they should be done.

While I try not to allow myself to go for generalizations, it seems to me that in most cases the further these units have strayed from the BSA way of doing things and the more they have rewritten the program the more defensive they get.

 

Over the past few years I think I have mellowed a little.

A few years back I seen anyone who was not doing things by the book as not only being wrong, but as also not living up to our Oath and Law.

Where as today I'm more willing to be open to units doing what works for them, in some areas.

I do believe that given a chance and some open minded hard work that the methods of Scouting can and do work. (Yes all of them.)

I also have come around to the idea that these methods are goals. Even when it seems that we have mastered them or got them down pat, things change and we have the need to start over.

The Patrol Method can and does work well.

But when a Troop doesn't have enough Scouts, it is tough to follow.

A new arrival of not so well off Scouts might mean that the great looking uniformed Troop is no longer looking that way.I could go on and give reasons why anyone of the methods might need to be put on hold.

I don't buy into the idea that this has anything to do with CO's.

It has to do with the people who deliver the program.

This does not mean that the adult leaders are always at any sort of fault. It just means that they deal the hand that they are dealt, but we strive to make it better.

Sadly sometimes making it better does involve making some hard choices.

That kid who most of the time is a nice Lad, but who seems unable to stop bullying, might have to be removed.

That ASM who undermines the SM might be better off in another unit.

The Committee member who is only there to defend her little darling who is a little brat, is not serving anyone, not even her little darling.

I'm not in any way saying that the BSA program and all that good stuff is wrong, I'm just saying that in the real world we at times have to do what we think is best to provide the program to the Scouts that we have, with th help that we have.

Eamonn

[Stosh]

Good question, but it's going to lead to some strange answers. I think there is an ideal troop and it is different in each troop. What works for me won't work elsewhere and vise versa. Big troops can't operate the same way as little ones and vise versa. So yes, there is/are many ideal troops out there doing it right, given the conditions in which they work and with the personalities of the adults and youth.

 

Those that have problems can be an ideal troop because it offers the boys the challenge of fixing it. Those that don't have problems could be an ideal troop too.

 

I think the first thing one has to do is define "ideal troop". That will mean different things to different people. After all, if it wasn't for the boys getting in the way, I'd have an ideal troop too! :^)

 

Stosh

 

 

[asm 411]

Within the boundaries of the Oath and Law using the Methods of Scouting to reach for the Aims of Scouting the ideal troop is like a river. It changes every day as need be based on who and what is in and around it.

[Gunny2862]

Eamonn, hear, hear (sound of thunderous applause)

 

I concur, in the definition of an ideal troop being:

The one in which the adults are doing everything they can to continuously move it closer to being a program as described in the BSA literature.

 

And on a really great day - that might include, for a very select few, mean doing nothing but keeping it where it is.

 

Of course some of us are eating bigger elephants than others and some of us have more people actually helping us eat it - rather than going out and trying to grow the silly thing.

[Frank17]

The ideal troop is whatever satisfies the boys who are in it and follows the Scout Oath and Law and BSA policies.

 

 

[Eamonn]

"The ideal troop is whatever satisfies the boys who are in it and follows the Scout Oath and Law and BSA policies."

 

I think I might know what you mean?

But we could have a group of Scouts who are very satisfied attending every Troop meeting and playing basket ball or dare I say it video games!! They might be the greatest example of living the oath and law.

They would not be going against any of the BSA policies.

They might even be within the parameters of many of the methods of Scouting.

So I'm not sure this works.

Eamonn.

 

 

[Lem]

Has anyone had the opportunity to see the current training DVD for scoutmasters (if it is current- it seems dated)??

 

In it there is a Boy Scout Troop and two adults, one a scoutmaster(he is an African American) and a Caucasian man training to be a scoutmaster. It is a very strange video. The acting is pretty stiff. But the way the scouts are behaving seems so unnatural to the boys I have ever experienced (both good and not).

 

I had gone along with a friend who was getting "trained" to offer him comapny and support. He wanted me to get a feel for the scouting thing and thought that I might think about volunteering as a BSA leader. I was pretty put off by the power point presentations the trainers had to offer, and the arguments for the marvels of boy-leadership. I knew from that experience that I was not of the stuff of scoutmasters.

 

But I am pretty sure that if that video were ever shown to most boys, they would run as fast as they could from scouting.

 

Now you would think that if BSA were making a training video showing Scouts in action, they would have scouted around" and located an "ideal Troop". This outfit in the video were nice enough boys, but they seemed kind of medicated. Al their activities were taking place in what seemed like a Community center (and not the woods where you might expect scouts). The Caucasian newbie scoutmaster seemed pretty effeminate.

 

I think BSA would be best served showing Fred MacMurray in action than the clowns in those videos.

 

It made me keep thinking- what is BSA selling- and what is the exemplar of scouting?

 

Jeff

 

[Frank17]

Eamonn:

 

IMHO, if they are happy playing basketball or (gasp) video games while they are living the scout oath / law, more power to them. Of course that will satisfy very few, as they will not be advancing, earning MBs, or "living the promise" (outdoor camping). But, if they are actually following the scout oath & law in their lives, that is what scouting is striving for. "The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law."

 

Don't get me wrong, we (probably like most troops) ban video games on our outings. But we also have patrol level activities where the boys can relax in smaller groups, go to the movies, watch TV, or play video games so they can get to know each other better. We do these as a day activity about once per quarter, in addition to the monthly camping, hiking, etc. It really helps foster patrol unity and camaraderie (and does not require much planning to implement).

 

Frank

 

 

[BeaverCarl]

To Emonn or whomever has an ear to hear

 

As I ready myself for another round of NYLT staff development, I meditate on such things. Stumbling onto this thread was a great excuse for a little mental exercise.

 

The aims of scouting are clear and there are definite methods (tested and tested again).

 

However the semantics of your question is in the way of actually getting to the heart of the matter.

 

I hate to burst folks bubbles... There IS no such thing as an "ideal Troop". A Troop never "IS" it is always becoming.

 

Thanks.

 

A little reminder

 

4.2.2 BSA -- Boy Scouting - Aims

 

There are three aims to BSA Scouting:

 

To build character

To build self-reliance, self-discipline, self-confidence and self-respect

To foster citizenship

To foster love of community, country and world, along with a commitment of

service to others and an understanding of democratic principles.

To develop fitness

To develop physical, mental, emotional, and moral fitness that will

stay with a Scout for the rest of his life.

 

These three aims are the bedrock of the American Scouting movement. They

represent the long term outcomes we want for every boy.

 

[Bob White]

I think troops can have ideal momoments. Some can have a lot of them some may have none. Some will have longer durations of them then others. Then again it depends on the leaders' knowledge and understanding of the scouting program as to whether or not they will recognize them when they occur.

[BeaverCarl]

Well said, Bob W. and for Leaders to be alert enough we get to witness these moments often means shutting-up and stepping back. You may be fortunate enough to influence the becoming.

 

Bless you all. and Merry Christmas.

[frank10]

Ah yes, the ideal troop... Run by the Ideal Scoutmaster and his ideal sons and supported by his ideal wife. I heard they meet at the Stepford community club.

 

Ok, now that I have that out of my system...

 

Let me tell you a story (trust me, it relates)

 

A bunch of years back we signed on to do a short white water raft trip at camp. Two hours of my life that I'll never get back. What they called white water was down right boring. About as exciting as a ride on the merry-go-round. We had such a bad time we swore we'd never do it again. And might have even said a few unscout like things to the river guide. To say the least this was not the ideal trip.

 

Three years later another troop's scoutmaster invited us to join them on the same trip on the same rafts on the same river... We expected well, more of the same. Still don't know why we went for it... As soon as we cast off there was a different feel to this trip. There was active racing between the two rafts, some bumping some splashing, some pirate talking Arrr. When we got to the long stretch of flat water and were given permission to swim some one tossed the SM and SPl in. Nether went "willingly" taking a scout or two with them. Next boarding party from the other raft captured our almost empty raft and tossed the remaining scouts over board. In their haste to take over our raft they failed to notice the SM climbing up the other side of the raft. - Ok, I'll stop here because this could go on for pages.

This was an ideal trip.

 

I know you all see where this is going, it may be true but dang if it doesn't feel like a SM minute.

 

An ideal trip or an ideal troop, it's mostly what you make it. If your looking to complain, you'll find plenty of stuff to complain about.