Creepiness?

[packsaddle]

Heh heh, I just today read an article on rifles in Field and Stream by Petzl. He described the trigger on one of them as being creepier than Dick Cheney. Wow, he described it perfectly.

[Gunny2862]

NeiLup,

I really liked your post except for "expect their children's values to be congruent to theirs creepy."

 

The child doesn't have to have values that are parallel (equidistant apart but never occupying the same point) to mine but I DO expect them to be somewhat congruent -

((From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Congruence is the state achieved by coming together, the state of agreement. The Latin congruere means to come together, agree. As an abstract term, congruence means similarity between objects. Congruence, as opposed to equivalence or approximation, is a relation which implies a kind of equivalence, though not complete equivalence.)

 

I.E. I would prefer that he didn't choose to be an axe murderer, that would not be an example of being either congruent nor parallel to my values.

 

I happen to think my values are reasonable okay - that being the case why wouldn't I want his to be the same or better?

[NeilLup]

Gunny, I appreciate your comment.

 

I was using "congruent" in more the mathematical sense of "congruent triangles" which are triangles that have the same three angles and same three side lengths, i.e. they are identical in every way. When I looked up "congruent" on dictionary.com, the definition was "coinciding exactly when superimposed" -- again a mathematical definition.

 

So my point was that I have known and seen parents who expect their children's values to be identical to theirs in every way even to punishing the child if they express a disagreement. And I do find that creepy.

 

I concur with you completely about Axe Murderers, Lizzie Borden notwithstanding

[Sarge]

'Great big globs of...........

 

Greasy grimy gopher guts

Mutilated monkey meat

Little birdy dirty feet'

 

10 quart cans of all purpose porpoise pus

and I forgot my spoon....

 

I couldn't resist.

[beardad]

So, I didn't want to resurect an old thread, but I thought this was the best place to post this.

 

My old packed dissolved a few months ago, so my family found a new pack. This new pack is alot bigger and alot more organized than my old pack. A few of the families from our old pack followed us.

 

I got a call from the cubmaster from the old pack the other day, saying he wanted to visit the new pack to make sure that all the kids are settled and liking the new pack. he did this with the families who chose other packs too. he says he just wants to make sure everybody is sticking with it.

 

anyway he comes to our meeting last night and told me now that he got everybody settled, he is ready to volunteer. I pointed him in the direction of the COR and the CC to discuss this. he had his volunteer app filled out and everything and was willing to do anything.

 

Here is the kicker. They told him that because he didn't have a child in the pack, that he couldn't volunteer. They turned away this very dedicated very skillful volunteer, who has been at it for alot of years, because his kids' aged out.

 

Then in the very next breath they stated there was an emergency need for volunteers, and told each and every parent that they had to volunteer for something or get out of the pack.

 

I didn't volunteer for anything (yet). in my thinking if they are turning people away for volunteering, then they must not need volunteers very badly.

 

sorry I just wanted to vent. and I thought the subject matterfit the theme of this thread.

[Lisabob]

Wow, that's nuts (unless there's some other aspect to their unwillingness to accept him that we don't know?).

 

Maybe recommend to this fellow that he consider becoming a unit commissioner. From the sound of it, he is already kind of doing what a great UC would do, keeping tabs to see that things are working out for "his" scouts and doing whatever he can to help them. The UC job isn't so different, though it focuses on units and not so much on individual scouts.

 

And I think if I were you, I'd quietly approach the CC and COR about their apparent brush-off of this guy as well. They may just not have thought about how they were coming across. OR I suppose they could have some other, underlying reason for not wanting his help in particular.

[packsaddle]

beardad, I'll offer a slightly different take on it. You described the pack as large and very organized (I read successful here). The CO and pack leadership evidently are doing something right and they do have the freedom to deny an application for any reason, or no reason. It's their decision.

The apparent contradiction between turning away a volunteer on one hand and then making a plea for volunteers on the other is also their decision.

The guy who was turned away can either view this negatively as a personal rejection or he can view this positively as validation of more personal free time that he can devote to selfish endeavors.

In any case, it's not your responsibility or your problem. Don't waste time or emotions trying to second-guess the decision. Just enjoy doing things with your son. He'll grow up very quickly and you will want to have as many good memories as possible.

[NeilLup]

Hello packsaddle,

 

I understand (if not agree with) all that you have said. I do understand the contradiction between "We demand volunteers" and "Parents only are acceptable volunteers." However, there may be history or just pigheadedness that gives rise to that attitude. It might be interesting to learn if there are any non-parents now connected with the unit.

 

As Lisabob mentioned, having the former CM sign up as a Unit Commissioner is a great idea. I know virtually no council or district that does not need more Commissioners and former Cub Scouting leaders are in particular high demand and short supply. Working on a training team is another place to serve.

 

Scouting is a family. While an individual unit can decline the services of a person, if the person is part of the Scouting family, we should try to find a place for them. We don't have enough volunteers to go around.

[Mr. Boyce]

There is a sport that I have played for many years, in many different competitive circumstances. I have gotten very proficient at it.

 

AFTER a while, with many skills and interests, you get to the point---naturally, I think---where you want to share your interest, excitement, benefits of the activity or sport.

 

It is almost a natural progression: novice, intermediate, expert, and then teacher.

 

It strikes me that scouting is like this for many. Shame that our (media-whipped?) fears hurt scouting by blocking out seriously good scouters because they are deemed "creepy". (And, heck, ANYONE can say "creepy" about someone, perhaps without thinking much about it, and have a social impact and generate fears, worries, concerns.

[SctDad]

BearDad

 

I think that this new unit that you are involved with has some issues. Find out why the only parents can be volunteers. OUR CC is not a parent, and the person who is serving as a temp WDL is his father. So I guess you could say he has a son in scouting. (LOL)Our ACM has no boys in the program. He has an infant daughter, but that is it. OK maybe the fact that he is an Law Enforcement officer also helps with his character.

 

 

 

But I would also make it known that there was a dedicated volunteer was turned down simply because he has no son in the pack. I think that is wrong. But maybe they have had some problems in the past.

 

Find out why they won't let him volunteer.

 

If that is still a problem, maybe the old CM may want to move to a district position. Or a UC.

[beardad]

The good news is that my former cubmaster said last night that he was going to check in with council or district for other volunteer opportunities. He specifically mentioned UC.

 

I have known this fellow for about 3 or 4 years, and there is no reason beyond "only parents can volunteer" that I can think of. He is very dedicated, gets along with everybody and has alot of knowledge.

 

This pack is pretty successful, and the biggest reason is they tell people up front that they cannot drop their kids off. I am cool with that. They told me upfront as the father of a Webelos, that I would have to pick 2 pins and teach them. I am cool with that. beyond that, they should accept anybody willing to help out.

 

There was other things said at the "emergency parent Meeting" that kinda irked me. They stated that it is mandatory for all leaders to be trained. ok I can see that it is a good idea and all leaders should be trained, but mandatory? mandated by whom exactly? also they said that all parents are to be trained. again maybe a good idea, but mandatory by whom? then they were looking for volunteers for blue and gold to run the raffle. aren't raffles looked poorly upon by BSA?

[SctDad]

Are you talking raffle or door prizes. If it is a raffle where people give money for tickets then you can't do that, but if you are giving away door prizes than that is different.

 

I think parents should be asked to volunteer for something. But forcing them to is different. I also believe that all leaders should be trained. Fast Start is not hard and it is not long. I would say that NLE training be taken at the earliest convienance.

[beardad]

I think it was raffle not door prizes. I, of course, could be wrong. won't be the first or last time that happens.

 

I personally am trained. I was a den leader/acm/everything that needed to be done, type person in the old pack. I too think its a good idea to have everybody trained. I guess it was the way that it was presented that all training is mandatory like it was coming from BSA and not just a pack rule, that got to me.

[ScoutNut]

It is the right of the Charter Organization (as the owner of the unit) to mandate that all of their unit's leaders be trained if they wish it.

 

Requiring that all parents get trained is trickier. Why would they want parents to be trained? What training are they requiring for parents? How do they prove the parents are trained? What happens if a parent does not take training?

 

BSA considers raffles gambling, and any form of gambling is not allowed.

 

 

[Gunny2862]

If gambling isn't allowed; why do adults sample what the Scouts cook?