Should we limit leadership to one type of person?

[highcountry]

I have 6 ASM's and 3 do not have kids in the program, those 3 are my best ASM's.

 

1 became Eagle 2 years ago, aged out and liked our troop and the program so much he stayed on as an ASM while he is in college locally. He is s huge supporter of real learning, leadership and responsibility, does a load of coaching, mentoring and counsels several merit badges.

 

1 is an Eagle Scout frm about 1970, is back in it for the love of the program. He is connected to the veeterans and also is strong on values, honor, responsibility and leadership

 

1 is the step son of teh 1970 Eagle ASM. He is big into the program, real learning and leadership, personal responsibility, his Forte is hiking and backpacking.

 

I also am not worried about losing any of these great assetts when theri son's drop out of the troop as they don't have any in the troop !

[Lisabob]

Thought I'd approach the matter of sending your son camping without a parent along.

 

I only have one son and so the poor kid has been my guinea pig his whole life, in a manner of speaking. We (husband and I) were very involved in cub scouts with him and I really buy into the power of the cub scouting program to support building strong families.

 

Now I know a thing or two about boy scouting, but at the time my son transitioned from cubs to boy scouts, I have to say I was rather skeptical about some of the troop leaders. They didn't seem to pay very close attention to some actions the boys took - moderate chaos was not unusual at some troop functions we visited. Kids being kids, there was also some rough and tumble activity from time to time. I didn't know any of these adult leaders and wasn't sure if I could trust them to pay adequate attention to my kid's safety.

 

None the less I didn't hover all that much. I sent him off on camp outs and only rarely went with him. I'll admit to wanting to be within arm's reach of the phone on his first couple of camp outs though, just in case things went badly and he needed me to rescue him. Didn't happen though. He has had some rough times, some challenging experiences, some unpleasant moments with some of his fellow scouts. He's camped in really lousy weather and learned from his lack of preparation. He's been hungry from time to time due to poor planning or implementation. There are a couple of adults he has met who he thinks are real jerks.

 

Through all of that, he survived, thrived, grew, learned, and matured. Once I got to know the adults in the troop (and in many cases, their older children, who turned out to be fine young men and women) I felt more comfortable trusting their judgment with my child. There are some matters over which I have strong disagreements with other adult leaders from time to time, but I no longer worry that my kid would be unsafe in their care.

 

So the point of all this is that I can certainly understand a parent's concerns and sense of caution - even extreme caution - when parents try to imagine what it will be like, sending their kid off camping without them. Pre-teen and teenage boys are not always the most logical, careful, or thoughtful creatures and I think all of us want to protect our kids to the extent it is possible. But the answer isn't to hover over them and only allow them to do things as long as you're right there. The answer is to get to know the adults in question. If, upon getting to know them, you feel that they aren't capable of keeping your kid safe, then maybe you should look for a different scout troop where you are more able to trust the adults in charge. A parent shouldn't keep their kid from having valuable experiences though, just to placate their own worries.

[kraut-60]

My Cubmaster back in 1966 had sons who were grown up and married at the time...was a great Cubmaster (his wife was a Den Mother). Both served Scouting until age and failing health curbed their activity.

 

My 1st Scoutmaster in 1969 was a WW2 US Army vet, foundry worker, married (2 sons grown and in the military)...also chain-smoked, still was an effective Scoutmaster...continued as Scoutmaster until 1972 when my father stepped up as Scoutmaster (which he did until 1983 which at that time I had served 7 years on active duty in the US Navy).

 

ScoutMomSD, you really shot yourself in the foot with your thread on being creepy...your hover-mom instincts are the core of the mediocrity that permeates units that fail in delivering the Scouting Promise due to parents that cant get over the "stranger danger" line of thought. Looking out for ones children is normal, but your approach borders on the absurd...citing "SouthPark" in your posts doesnt bolster an image of sanity.

 

Let your feet heal before you stop hovering, otherwise you may tip over when you finally land.

[Cubmaster C]

When I recently returned from Woodbadge, I was explaining to my wife about how earnest everyone was about their involvement with Scouting. She listened, and told me something that has influenced my way of thinking ever since she said that Scouting was not just a hobby, or father-son (or mother-son) activity, but rather a Calling. I think about that when I meet other Scouters now, and Id have to say that the vast majority are answering some kind if call to duty, regardless of their martial status, age, or children (or lack of). I feel thats the real core of the Scouting spirit, a willingness to give to our youth because one HAS to, not because theres something it in for them beyond the reward of providing a place for the Scouts to learn a love of life in the outdoors with good fellowship.

[NeilLup]

Hello ScoutMomSD,

 

I have been following this thread with interest. But this one statement of yours tweaked me a bit:

 

"I know that most kids are molested by folks they know including parents and relatives and friends. I know there are many married pedofiles."

 

With respect, your second statement is, as I understand matters, quite incorrect. There are NOT many married pedophiles. Because THERE ARE NOT MANY PEDOPHILES OF ANY SORT, married, single, gay, straight, male, female, young old, etc. Those that there are can do incredible damage and our caution is well advised but, in my opinion, our situation is much like the security people at the airport. They don't find guns, they don't find bombs, they don't find terrorists because there aren't many guns, bombs and terrorists. But when those guns, bombs or terrorists do show up, they can do incredible damage.

 

Consider me creepy if you wish, I am sure that other people do. I've been a Scout leader for 45 years having been a Scout for 8. I have one daughter who was briefly an Explorer and did one summer at Scout camp. She's engaged to an Eagle Scout. I do Scouting because:

a) I like the people

b) I like what Scouts do

c) I find it a way that I can serve

d) I can help the next generation

e) I can assist in the same way the others assisted me

 

 

 

I think that wanting to go on a campout with your son is very appropriate. I might anticipate at least 3 different reactions on the part of the Troop leaders:

 

a) Well, we don't want parents to go on campouts. We prefer that only Troop adults go. (Possible trouble here, look carefully)

b) Sure, happy to have you go. (Good answer, take them up on it.)

c) Actually, we prefer that only trained leaders go on campouts. If you would like to take leader training, we'll be happy to sign you up for it at the earliest opportunity and then you can go as a trained leader who knows what to look for. (You may have found a winner here. Treasure this Troop. Take the training if this isn't an excuse to make you wait a year.)

 

The point is, are you going as someone to "check out" the Troop leadership and keep looking over your son's shoulder or are you going as an adult to help all of the Scouts, one of which is your son. The latter is what Scout leaders do.

 

Another thought, just to ask the question:

 

"I know - you have to give them roots AND wings. I have a good friend who was really "close" to her daughter when she was 17 and all of the sudden she figured out her daughter was pregnant. Thats where the tie the camel comes in. "

 

What does this have to do with anything? Does she believe or do you believe that if she had been with her daughter at all times, this would not have happened? Do you truly believe that is a realistic possibility and do you truly believe that the mother is in some way responsible or is a "bad parent" if the daughter acts irresponsibly or has bad luck and becomes pregnant? I know this must be extraordinarily difficult and sad for the family. However, I have heard the saying in Scouting circles "character is what you do when no one is watching." If you believe that, you totally circumvent character building by not letting your son learn to think and act independently.

 

To me, one of the advantages of Scouting is that youth do see a broad diversity of adults, styles, beliefs, and interpretations of the Scout Oath and Law. They receive lots of good data as they form their own character and decide what kind of people and what kind of leaders they will be. Maybe some of those leaders are a little creepy. But don't you think that the kids know that? So they learn creepy people exist, here is what they are like and here is how I deal with them.

 

My daughter (mentioned above) and I have had our challenges, some of those at 100 decibles. However, I was incredibly honored and proud when I was in a serious accident 2 weeks ago, she dropped what she was doing, took the red eye across country, and spent a week with me in the hospital making sure that my recovery was proceeding well.

 

If you try to protect your kids from everything and make them robots, the best you'll get is good robots and you may get a serious rebellion. If you try to empower them to become independent citizens and ultimately independent adults, they'll be the next generation. And that's why I'm in Scouting.

[Frank17]

I volunteer for all kinds of organizations (my church, school, sports, outdoor groups, and local museums) in addition to scouts. Without fail, living in the post-911 and post-Columbine era, ALL organizations that I work with youth in any way require a child abuse clearance and a criminal background check. Some even require additional child abuse awareness training.

 

Now I still have kids involved with these organizations. But in 4 years, when they are both off to college, I don't expect to be asked to resign my VOLUNTEER positions, simply because I am now one of the "creepy adults". My kids are taught by teachers in our public schools without kids, coached by coaches who are not married, and spend time around music instructors whose kids are grown & gone. I have no problem with that. Do you restrict your kids education & development to only married adults with kids in the proper age backet? At what point do they suddenly become creepy?

 

 

[Gunny2862]

I will state that it is my opinion that a parent should never be turned away from going camping with their son, or daughter. Unless, of course, either the Scout or Parent is a danger to themselves or others.

If the Troop I am now the Scoutmaster of had acted weird about my accompanying them on the boys first Scouting outing then I would probably not be doing what I am doing now because his mother wouldn't have allowed him to join.

 

However the more the Parents stay away from their child on the camp out the more the Scout will enjoy the camp out. The more the youth will integrate into the Troop and the less weird the other Scouts will think the Scout(and his Parents) is/(are).

 

If you are truly worried then go to training, go with the Troop(so you can be near) and avoid your child like the plague.

If he weren't the current SPL I could go all weekend without interacting with mine except to get to the rally point to go out and then to get back home.

 

But conversely, the slowest advancing Scout I currently have doesn't camp without Mom('cause Dad won't) and Mom goes when it's convenient and with good weather. (Scene from Apocalypse now... dum dum de dum dum... Whop whop whop).

Not that advancement is everything but he's getting left behind by his peers - which as far as I can tell is an excellent indicator that he will probably not last. Not that advancement doesn't happen at weekly meetings but it's hard to do a 5 mile hike with map and compass at a weekly meeting. Camp cooking doesn't happen at weekly meetings.

And while I won't add to requirements I'm not signing off on a walk around the CO's building with a map and a compass, sorry.

[OldGreyEagle]

when I think about this thread, I wonder why no one has pointed out the obvious as yet. Then again, I didnt think about it until now. The whole Scouting Movement was designed and implemented by an individual who was not yet married, had no children and was not close to having any. Yet B-P started Scouting. B-P is regarded as a great man, not creepy