Unit Tax ID number

[ETD129-AW Chpt Adv]

I've had this question put to me. What do units do when they are ask for a tax Id number, such as when opening a checking or savings account? I know BSA or Councils don't have a number for individual units to use. What have some other units done?

Options I have heard are:

 

1. Use the charger organizations (CO) ID number. (Problem, the CO is a business & not a non-profit such as a church)OR is this still an option?

2. Apply for your own ID in the units name.

3. Use a leaders SSN to open accounts. (Which I have done in the past, but not really excited about it.)

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[substring]

In my humble opinion, it is a bad idea to set up anything using an adult leader's personal information. Keep in mind that it is beneficial to the unit if the unit leader rolls off every two years or so. Change is good. It brings new idea and fresh air to the unit. It is not healthy if the Scoutmaster sticks around for 7, 8 years.... long after his son has archived Eagle.

 

You can register the unit as a non-profit organization and you can get a tax id. Some places, like the Army/Navy stores or some local merchants, will give discounts to Boy Scouts with or without a tax id.

[Gold Winger]

"n. Keep in mind that it is beneficial to the unit if the unit leader rolls off every two years or so. Change is good. It brings new idea and fresh air to the unit. It is not healthy if the Scoutmaster sticks around for 7, 8 years.... long after his son has archived Eagle."

 

Sez who?

[packsaddle]

First I have to say "welcome" to a fellow Southerner! I've done some research on Carter's Lake in the past and your area is really a great area for scouting.

 

If the unit doesn't have its own TIN, and most don't, it is probably best to use the CO's number, with their consent of course. If the CO is a business, they might even get a tax deduction as a result...or they might object to the extra paperwork. Either way I'd ask for their opinion before I did anything else.

 

In the past I've opened non-interest-bearing accounts for the purposes of organizing professional meetings and banks were able to do this without the TIN or SSN. I walked up to the manager with a deposit in hand and he quickly figured out a way to take the money. Go figure. But this may have changed, it's been a few years.

 

Getting a TIN for the unit involves some work and it would really be better if the CO could accommodate your needs somehow.

I agree with regard to using a personal SSN. Not the best way to operate.

 

[Eamonn]

I know this comes off sounding very un-helpful!!

But when you are asked this question the best answer is that people should ask a local attorney (Maybe who is a tax specialist?) or tax adviser in the state where they live.

 

Many Councils are not willing to allow units the use of their tax ID number.

In the Council I serve here in PA, the Council requires a tax ID to be on file. If there isn't one they collect the PA 6% sales tax.

 

Scout units are not in most cases what might be called "Stand Alone Units" Most are part of another organization. The Organization that charters the unit.

Some units (A lot of Sea Scout Ships) do form for 501©(3) Non-profit corporation.

We did, with the help of my accountant. (We did it in order to be able to accept large donations (Boats) which the donor could claim as a donation when tax time rolled around.)

Even with the help of my accountant, with all the different fees it ended up costing me about $1,500.00

Now even though the Ship is chartered by a local VFW Post there is in place a Friends of Sea Scout Ship in place.

My view is that in the case of most Scout units the expense just isn't worth it.

Eamonn.

[ScoutMomSD]

Gold - "sez" me.

 

Okay here goes my non PC side again. I think its kind of creepy to have men whose kids have long left who spend their spare time "hanging around" scouts. In fact that kind of creeped me out at the Roundtable I went to also.

 

There have been so many "issues" and I believe a whole patch (bobcat) about that subject that I would never be in favor of folks who dont have kids in the pack/troop involved.

 

My mom used to say, "avoid the appearance of evil".

[Eagle92]

ScoutmomSD,

Don't knock those of us who don't have kids in the program. For me, Scouting has opened up a world of opportunities as a youth, and I want to give back. Or as my wife says "Scouting is your drug of choice" Seriously though Scouting is something that gets into you and won't let go. And I am looking forward to my oldest finally being a Tiger Cub next year.

 

Also some of the best SMs I know have never had kids in scouting. My original SM never had kids, he was a doting uncle who started a troop for his nephews. Even when they aged out and moved on, he continued to work with us and make a difference. Sad day when he finally left after 25 years of being SM.

 

I also know of two gentlemen who took over their floundering troops as soon as they turned 21. Both are still active, both are still SMs, and both don't have sons in the program. However one is looking forward to his daughter can joining Venturing in a few years

 

(This message has been edited by eagle92)(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[Gold Winger]

So it's okay if a guy is around when his son is in the program but a year later, he's suddenly creepy? That's pretty idiotic, if not sick.

 

There's much to be said for continuity of SM that you don't get when you play musical SMs. For one thing, you don't have an SM who is worried about getting his son to make Eagle.

 

One of the best troops that I know has had the same SM since the troop was founded, over 30 years ago and he never had a son in the troop. Yeah, that's pretty creepy.

 

How about the guy in Scouting magazine who's been the SM of the same troop since before WWII? Pretty creepy there.

 

There are those who say that when someone talks about the negative behavior of others, they see that in themselves. Maybe you have the problem.

 

Maybe we should be wondering about the mothers who want to be involved in Boy Scouts. Maybe they're the creepy ones, hanging around and oggling the athletic young men. Maybe more? Hmmmmmm?

[nolesrule]

When it comes down to it, BSA is just a youth program. Most religious institutions have a youth director who runs their youth programs. Do we think it's creepy if they don't have children in the program (or no children at all)? What about Big Brothers/Big Sisters? Is that program creepy?

 

My late father-in-law (who was an Eagle Scout and a SM at one point before he had only daughters) mentored middle school students in his free time (he was on the verge of retirement when he passed). Is that creepy?

 

One of the units I serve as a unit commissioner has a SM that's been there for a very long time. ASMs and MCs change in that troop, but he's been the SM for the majority of years the troop has been around. There are troops that have the same SM for decades and there are some that change SMs every 3-4 years, like the troop I was in as a boy. Both ways work perfectly well if it's the right people serving as leaders.

[ScoutNut]

I started with BSA because I wanted to help provide my son with, what I consider to be, one of the best programs for youth around. I continue with BSA now that my son is 19, because I still believe that it is one of the best programs for youth around. I am still around because I want to make sure that the BSA programs in my area continue to be active, healthy, vibrant, programs, and that as many youth as possible can take advantage of those programs.

 

Many of the volunteers who provide YOU with training, Commissioner Service, running and staffing council activities (including that Roundtable you are so creeped out and appalled by), and helping your Council go, no longer have youth in the programs. Without them helping YOU, there would not be much of a program for YOU and YOUR son.

 

I give of my time, my families time, energy, money and sanity so that YOUR son, and other peoples sons, can have a great BSA program.

 

Wow, how creepy and evil can you get!

(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

[ETD129-AW Chpt Adv]

ScoutMomSD says:

Gold - "sez" me.

Okay here goes my non PC side again. I think its kind of creepy to have men whose kids have long left who spend their spare time "hanging around" scouts. In fact that kind of creeped me out at the Roundtable I went to also.

There have been so many "issues" and I believe a whole patch (bobcat) about that subject that I would never be in favor of folks who dont have kids in the pack/troop involved.

My mom used to say, "avoid the appearance of evil".

________________________________________

 

I started this thread with a simple question about a tax ID number. It was not my intention for this to spin into the thread it has. But "substring" saw fit to spin it that way. And OMG ScoutMomSD wades in with the most idiotic and insulting remark know to scouting. I can't resist. I don't even know how to respond to this one.

 

Eagle92 brought up a good point about church youth directors being involved with youth when they have no kids of their own. Not to be taken the wrong way, I don't know the statistics, but I would dare say BSA has a better rate on this subject than the clergy.

 

And how dare you even be involved in a program in the first place that was founded by, and fostered to where we are today by great men who had not sons in the program. If you have no more trust and support in the program than that then you're in the wrong place.

 

The most successful troop I know had continuity of leadership in a scoutmaster that's been there since 1964 (yep 44 years). He has faith in the program and believes in the ideals we stand for and the troop he's built shows it and lives it. I challange you show me a unit with all NEW leaders and no veteran experience that can claim the same.

 

You have your opinion and know you know mine.

[packsaddle]

And here I had actually hoped you'd bring the thread back to topic. Sigh.

[Gold Winger]

Oh sigh, the thread police are complaining about thread drift again. Heavy sigh.

[Eamonn]

I did notice that we seemed to be off course.

I'm unsure how we got from there to here?

But now it would seem we are changing course again.

Talking about how we got off course.

Where the heck is a moderator when you need one?

Ea.

[click23]

We have been told here in Tennessee that units cannot use their COs TIN. Our scout shop will not even accept the TIN from the CO, and said that rule came from the state department of revenue. I guess that those been counters have no idea how the BSA charter system works.