Laser Tag Prohibited??

[evmori]

That's not my definition, Dean. That belongs to Mr. Webster. The G2SS should be changed to read weapon.

 

 

Tater cannons are more fun!(This message has been edited by evmori)

[FScouter]

"This to my mind is all just adults tryin' to twist things around and play word games. "

And you're the master at that tactic, eh Beavah?

[SSScout]

G2SS are/is guidelines/rules.

As in all things, the rules/guidlines for my family may not be the same as my neighbors'.

Like many on this forum (and elsewhere in Scoutworld), I played soldier and cowboys and indians. Hoppalong Cassidy and Roy Rogers and John Wayne were often on our TV (and Dave Garroway. Dates me, I guess). Good guys catch and kill bad guys. I "died" my share on the playground.

But this is a different time.

 

When I teach Archery at CSDC, I make sure the boys realize that I want them to have fun and they can get great satisfaction in mastering the bow, but to also realize the responsibility they have to use the bow correctly. Serious business.

 

Toy guns DO look like REAL guns, even if they are painted orange. They are made to look real. Some less then fortunate children have taken up the REAL gun and used it as a toy without (I think) realizing the reality of their actions. Families grieve accordingly. I pray your Scouts and children are not ever in that group.

The Lazertag and paintball games are INTENDED to be as real (even when they are not) as possible WITHOUT ACTUALLY KILLING YOUR ""ENEMY"". It is INTENDED to be emotional, as emotional as the real thing. The participants play at killing, even if the players or game promoters protest to the contrary. The same is true with egames like 'Public Enemy' and 'Full Metal Jacket' and 'Grand Theft Auto'. To win at the defined game, one must kill and steal and lie. These "games" do not practice the skills and do not promote the goals I want for my family. Scouting does. These games do not.

Can you improve your hand-eye coordination, teamwork, judgement, cooperation, and strength and stamina without using a goal of trying to kill someone? I say yes.

When my son or his Scout buddies talk about such things, I engage them and get them to see the other possibilities.

Some time back, I related the story of my encounter with a toy gun.

It was a nice cool fall day and I was on my motorcycle, coming around a left sweeper, when I looked up to my right to see a person aiming a rifle at me from the top of an embankment. I nearly laid it down right there, but I had presence of mind to keep it up, come around and turn up the driveway I had just passed. I found a 10 or 11 year old boy, holding a very realistic looking TOY gun. I whipped off my helmet and told him, in no uncertain terms, that if I was anyone else, he'd be on the ground, that gun would be in pieces, and I'd be talking to his parents. "It's only a toy, mister!", he said. I told him I didn't know that, that he nearly caused me to have an accident and hurt me by his actions , even tho it was "only a toy" and he should NEVER point ANY gun, toy or real, at any living thing again... I rode off. I hope I scared him a little. He should be about 40 years old now...

 

It is a differnt time. We cannot allow our children to consider the idea that it is FUN to needlessly cause injury to ANY living thing without challenge.

 

That said, my son has earned the Shotgun MB and Riflery MB is on the horizon. I want him to be knowledgeable but to realize the purpose of these weapons lies in his heart.

 

Liz?

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, FScouter, I'm not sure there's any need to try to get in a personal slam like that, eh? So I'll just assume you're tryin' to make a not-so-funny joke about my background.

 

I'll cop to that background, eh? Where I come from, I mostly expect something that pretends to be "policy" to be written well... and written like policy. This is neither, which is why I reckon it generates such silliness.

 

B

 

[evmori]

"This to my mind is all just adults tryin' to twist things around and play word games. "

And you're the master at that tactic, eh Beavah?

 

I would expect more from a site moderator than a cheap shot like that FScouter. Bd form.

[FScouter]

Part of a good debate is to relate facts that support ones position, and to state those facts using words that are most efficient for the job of convincing others of the rightness of one position and/or the wrongness of the opposing position. Some debaters do a good job at this.

 

It does seem ironic to lament that one side twists facts and plays word games, and to use the same approach in making the lamentation. But that too is a good technique of persuasion, no?

[Beavah]

It does seem ironic to lament that one side twists facts and plays word games, and to use the same approach in making the lamentation.

 

Yah, that was the point of that post, eh? The irony was intended, and the comment was in part self-referential.

 

Which is why da personal slam from you was all the more out of place.

 

B

 

 

 

 

[Eagledad]

>>John Wayne were often on our TV (and Dave Garroway. Dates me, I guess). Good guys catch and kill bad guys. I "died" my share on the playground.

But this is a different time.

[Eamonn]

Seems to me that every-time this comes up, we cover the same old same old.

If I post that the rule is the rule is the rule and mention that Obedient is part of the Scout Law.

Someone will post that to follow blindly is not what we are about.

But for me the rule is the rule.

Having never been involved or played these games it's kinda easy for me.

Maybe the lines of what constitutes a "Scouting Activity" and what doesn't? Can for some be a little blurry?

I have never seen this as being a problem.

Some of the Scouts in the Ship carry their paintball gear in the trunk of their cars, next to their Sea Scout stuff, but next to all that is the gear they wear to work. Three different sets of gear for three different activities.

Sunday I went to a graduation party for one of our Sea Scouts.

Held in his family back yard by their pool.

I hung out for a while, ate some food, drunk some pop, talked with the kids who were there, a good number were from the Ship. I chatted with the parents and was home in time for 60 Minutes on TV.

The kids gave me heck for not bringing my swimming gear. I explained that the weather had been cold and I didn't like the idea of swimming in cold water, they of course called me a big wuss!! (And explained that the pool was heated)

When I left they seemed happy playing pool basket ball.

It seems after the old people had all gone and it got dark, someone came up with the idea of Skinny Dipping.

I haven't heard how the parents of the graduate felt about this, I'm not sure who all was there and who dipped and who didn't. (To be honest I don't really care!)

Sure a lot of the kids there were /are members of the Ship, sure skinny dipping is not allowed by the BSA.

But this clearly wasn't a Scouting event.

If and when they decide to do this at a Sea Scout or Scouting event, I'm going to care.

The thing about water guns is new to me.

Seems a little silly.

But dish-washing detergent bottles work fine.

I have some very large hypodermic whatever they are called? With no needles that work great. - I suppose someone will say that I'm promoting drug use?

I really don't think that the odd game of paintball or Laser Tag is going to turn the youth we serve into the next group who end up spending time with me in The Big House.

But I can't help coming back to the rule is the rule.

Until it's changed I'm OK to live with it.

I don't see that allowing these games is going to help us bring more Scouts in.

I know I can offer alternatives that can fill the time that a group might want to spend playing these games.

I'm happy if they want to go and play when and where they want, just as long as it's not a Scouting event.

Eamonn.