Laser Tag Prohibited??

[Lisabob]

See and this is where the G2SS is open to interpretation. I can see where someone might come down either on Eagle 1977's or on Ed's side of things. Personally I think Ed's view makes more sense (banning super soakers just seems beside the point to me). But there is wiggle room here to go either way. Not so, with laser and paintball, which are mentioned and prohibited by name.

 

 

[SMT224]

This has become an absurd discussion!

 

Laser Tag & Paint Ball have no place in the Scouting program - they are entertainment activities, and fit well under Baby Sitters of America (where adults feel compelled to accommodate the wants of kids, not the needs). Sure kids like to play these games, but they are not in any way, shape, or form part of the Boy Scout program. They do not do anything to teach outdoor skills, learn an appreciation of nature, develop character, or live the Scout Law. No way no how.

 

Just because kids want to play these games doesn't mean we need to accommodate that desire. They want to play Grand Theft Auto and watch stupid adolescent movies too, but these are not part of the Scouting program just because teens want to do them any more than Laser Tag & Paint Ball are part of the Scouting program just because they want to do them.

 

We have way too much to do with our camping program, service projects, and other Scout activities to even think about adding such a stupid activity. Why bother? What's the point? Because they want to? They can't get everything they want. Get over it.

 

If kids want to get together on their own time and do any of the dumb adolescent activities they find so desirable, fine, but these activities have no place in a Scouting program irregardless of whether G2SS prohibits or not.

 

[Mafaking]

 

I hold forth that Lisabob's comments on the bottom of page four are by all measures the reasonable person's approach to this issue.

 

Well said Lisabob.

 

 

[Eagle92]

SMT,

I would have to respectfully disagree with your assertion on lazertag. Several elements are incorporated into it. Off the cuff here are a few similarities.

 

1) It's entertainment, i.e. a game just like Scouting is a game.

 

2) It's a team building exercise. You work in small groups, like patrols, to acheive a goal, ie winning.

A) Develops communication skills

B) Develops planning

C) Instills comraderie

D) Gives members of a group a chance to evaluate themselves and

their teammates.

 

3)Provides a positive way to relieve stress and interpersonality conflicts.

 

When I was in the UK with the European Camp Staff Program, the camp used this as a team building exercise one nite. We had a blast and it definately improved how we worked with each other and morale.

 

[Kudu]

Lisabob writes:

 

But there is wiggle room here to go either way. Not so, with laser and paintball, which are mentioned and prohibited by name.

 

A strict application of Lisabob's "prohibition by name" would therefore allow electronic tag because it does NOT in fact use "lasers."

 

High tech tag uses the same infrared technology found in TV remote control devices.

 

The solution is obvious: Find out what "channel" triggers a hit on your local electronic tag establishment's sensors and have the Scouts bring their own infrared remote control devices from home. I'm sure that even Lisabob would agree that changing TV channels does not simulate the infliction of injury (beyond couch potato obesity).

 

Problem solved.

 

SMT224 writes:

 

We have way too much to do with our camping program, service projects, and other Scout activities to even think about adding such a stupid activity.

 

I am with SMT224 on this one. Scouts should outdoors. Period.

 

Here again the solution is obvious: Shave a couple hours of indoor business manager theory from Wood Badge and get those indoor-loving adults outside to play a few real Scout Games: Wide Games!

 

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/wide/index.htm

 

Adults can not teach what they do not know.

 

If the Cub Scout Wood Badge participants object, we could offer an indoor scissors and paste sock puppet alternative for them to take back to their feminized little cup cake darlings.

 

Problem solved.

 

Kudu

 

 

[dg98adams]

You know as Scouters we don't have the option of choosing which BSA rules to follow.

 

I personally think paintball (with safety equipment) and lasertag aren't harmful. But G2SS BSA policy is clear on that.

 

I also respectfully ask to eliminate the childish "Woodbadge-related backhand comments" when replying to posts. This is NOT a forum to bash or offer up back-hand smacks to any volunteer training.

 

I spent quite of bit of personal time and money as well as a commitment for Woodbadge Training (when I was the CM). This year, being on staff (as a seasoned ASM) requires even more commitment than before I became a Buffalo.

 

I apologize for hijacking the theme of this thread.(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[Kudu]

dg98adams writes:

 

respectfully ... childish ... bash ... backhand smacks

 

Characterizing as "respectful" terms such as "childish," "bash" and "backhand smacks" is a perfect example of cult Wood Badge Logic.

 

We certainly could afford to lose a couple of hours of business theory to teach something real like Wide Games at Wood Badge.

 

I spent quite of bit of personal time and money as well as a commitment for Woodbadge Training...

 

I spend an equal amount of personal time undoing the damage done to Traditional Scouting by dedicated "Woodbadge" Staffers like you.

 

I apologize for hijacking the theme of this thread.

 

I accept your apology.

 

Kudu

[Eagledad]

>>We have way too much to do with our camping program, service projects, and other Scout activities to even think about adding such a stupid activity.

 

I am with SMT224 on this one. Scouts should outdoors. Period.

[Beavah]

Yah, evmori, you are usin' an old copy of G2SS there, eh? Da policy changed last year. Yeh have to keep current, new pages get added every year! The rules are what DeanRx posted:

 

Pointing any type of firearm or SIMULATED FIREARM at any individual is unauthorized.

 

Personally, as someone familiar with firearms, I don't think super soakers, lasertag guns, or paintball toys look a thing like 'em, eh? But they do look a lot like each other. Space-age toy gun hooked up to a pack or reservoir. So if a lasertag toy is a "simulated firearm", so is a supersoaker. And there are plenty of other squirtguns, suction cup dart guns and the like that fit the bill too.

 

Or we can use Lisabob's "it's not mentioned specifically" interpretation and say airsoft guns (which really do look like firearms) are OK.

 

This to my mind is all just adults tryin' to twist things around and play word games. I'm with Eagledad, eh? If a kid reads this thread and just rolls his eyes at the silly justifications we have to come up with for prohibiting a safe activity, then we adults should be laughin' not arguing about "trustworthiness."

 

Like I said, our membership, youth and adult, have already voted with their feet on this issue. More kids play paintball regularly than are in Scouting. The sport has grown 17% per year among our demographic while we've been static or shrinkin'. Every laser tag place advertises specials for cub scout and boy scout units and they get lots of takers.

 

Not to mention both paintball and lasertag have a vastly better safety record than Scouting does, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[csyork]

Talking to a local paintball guy he said in over 20 years he had only a couple of serious injuries. One adult from a church group took off his mask on the field and got shot in the eye. I'm sure it hurt like hell, but he was okay. The other was a guy who slid down a steep hill and caught a stick in the leg resulting in seven stitches. Other than that it's just scrapes and bruises.

[lagosscouter]

Hi All,

I can see the point that this is a rule and it should be followed "during Official Scouting Events"

But my question goes twords what is the procedure to change the rules???

 

Writting policy to prevent kids from pointing toy guns at one anouther is silly...Kids have been playing coyboy and indian since ...well....there where coyboys and inians.

 

We used sticks, fingers, cap guns that blasted with strips of paper with gun powder on it and yes the evil wicked water gun.

 

As to wether this belongs in a scouting program...Boys need to have fun and blow off steam together...

 

just some thoughts

 

 

 

 

[evmori]

Pointing any type of firearm or SIMULATED FIREARM at any individual is unauthorized.

 

A supersoaker or a squirt gun is not a firearm or simulated firearm by definition. If the G2SS stated simulated weapon, then they would be.

 

Common sense people!(This message has been edited by evmori)

[DeanRx]

evmori - Problem is if one uses your definition o f"firearm", then it would be OK to allow the scouts to shoot at each other with air-rifle BB-guns... no gunpowder or black powder used.... just air... While I think the reg as it satnds is vague and ridiculous, I also do not advocate for allowing scouts to pick each other off with BB-guns.

 

lagosscouter - asks what can be done to get the rule changed? Thats a VERY good question. As many a pro scouter will hurriedly offer up when confronted with a volunteer that asks "WHY?" something is the way it is... the often repeated answer is, "Well, BSA is not a democracy. It is a private organization, and if you don't want to abide by the rules and regs, then you are free to join a different group."

 

I, personally, think it would do national wonders if they had a "volunteer senate", that would field, discuss and vote on program regulation changes BEFORE national just jams it down every volunteer's throat. It could very easily be done via online forum such as this, with a constituents area for fielding input, and a seperate "senate member's" area where final discussion and resolution takes place and then would be presented to the national steering committee to at least take into consideration.

 

It would go a LONG way to putting common sense back into some of the decisions, and go even a LONGER way to removing much of the animosity and tension between high level / long term unit volunteers and many of the pro's who don't seem to understand why people who don't get paid to scout get upset so fast, when they are told of yet another thing they must do or not do in THEIR unit's program.

 

Anyone know if national has any feedback method for their policies, or is it just a "do as I say" attitude?

 

 

 

 

[gwd-scouter]

At our Council Exporee last month, one of the District Executives was demonstrating a new popcorn prize - a plastic rifle that shoots mini marshmallows. He was pointing it at young scouts who were trying to catch the marshmallows in their mouths.

[csyork]

The marshmallow gun is a good place to end this thread ... that's too funny.