Visitor form

[scoutingtexas]

Does anyone have a visitor form for when someone outside the troop visits on a campout. I am just wanting to prevent visitors invited by our scoutmater who thinks HE owns the troop and we have no say. He has invited people from outside our coucil and one I have known before but don't know if he is registered with Scouts. I will be making sample ones and will post. Thanks for help.

[click23]

I have never seen anything like that. Who are the "we" in "we have no say"?

[printman31]

I think you need to elaborate a bit more. What is the problem with the SM inviting people to camp? Do you see a Youth protection issue here? Are these people of low moral character? Are they assisting the SM in anyway?

[Stosh]

Hmmm, I invited an experienced kayaker who wasn't even a scouter to assist with getting my boys down a whitewater river this summer. She was SM invited, and did the troop a great favor. I guess I messed up really big time because I didn't have her fill out any forms.

 

I found it strange that the other adults and/or boys didn't complain and kinda appreciated having an extra safety person along besides just the SM.

 

And when all was said and done they didn't charge her for food and gas for the trip as they did all other adults. Kinda makes one wonder if we're not defining guest differently.

 

Stosh

[scoutingtexas]

We are ASSM and the committee. I just want to know if visitors on campouts that really have nothing to do with our group need to be preapproved by the committee or should be just asked to leave. Our SM organized this event so he thought he was in charge and could do what he wants. The only reason one was invited by the SM beacuse of friendship the other was more of an "expert." I think one of our visitors filled out paperwork but don't know to what extent in his/her own council the other I don't know for sure, we didn't know they were going to be on our campout and it was thrown on us.

How much of a scene do we go through at the campout to get these guests gone or not show up and surprise us? Thanks

[John-in-KC]

Your Scoutmaster is in charge of program. The Chartered Partner made him or her your program officer. Not the CC, not the Committee, the Chartered Partner. Now, if you use other than BSA leader selection best practices, this last may not be as true as it is in the abstract.

 

He/she may have good and valid reasons to bring folks in, not the least of which is to show off the youth to other folk. Sometimes, pointing to these great young charges of ours and saying "these are good people" can be an ego boost for the kids.

 

IF the Committee has concerns about who visits your unit weekend camps, that's a matter for a quiet friendly cup of coffee between the CC and the SM.

 

If there are deeper concerns, then the CC needs to have a more structured visit with the SM, perhaps in the COR's office.

 

Get the concerns on the table, all sides listening, and then get them solved.

[ScoutNut]

Did these 2 visitors interfere with the Scouts and their program for the weekend?

 

Where/how did they camp? Where/how did they eat?

 

Did they bring their own food and equipment? Did they use food and equipment from the Scout's patrols?

 

Did the Troop pay for any of their expenses?

 

Did they contribute anything at all to the Troops weekend program?

 

Or, were they just there as camping buddies for the SM?

 

[scoutingtexas]

They used their own tents. They ate with us, we brought food for the meals as did another troop, I know they didn't bring anything. One contributed to the group, but was invited last time we went somewhere and rode with us and never paid any expenses from the last trip. I was stuck with that. I asked the SM if he/he was going to pay this time, he just kind of blew it off and said why, he didn't pay last time. I said nope and nothing was said about it again. The other was just a friend of the SM and didn't do anything except take time and equipment from what the boys were doing. Okay as an ASSM I want to introduce a form for visitors that let us approve or deny these visitors, if they add okay if not they stay away but isnt that best for the boys. Our SM doesn't have boys in the troop anymore, if his boys were in the troop and went one the campout the person that didn't contribute would not have been there. I know when introduce this visitors permission slip the SM will get mad. But This is for the boys and not for the SM to bring his friends to use equipment from the boys.

[jtswestark]

I can think of a million reasons your SM may be doing this without running it past anyone else (not that that's the best way to handle it); but it sounds like you all really havent talked enough about this and now just want to do a roundabout instead. Wouldnt a sit down as was suggested be more constructive versus broad siding him with some new form? If for no other reason than to let him know the troop and individuals shouldn't be funding his buddies weekend adventures.

 

Jack

[scottteng]

Sometimes guests are invited to share their expertise in that case it would be appropriate for the troop to pick up their meals. Some requirements require discussion with public official and if your SM can get one to your campout kudo's are in order. Sometimes outsiders are required for activities shooting sports and pools jump to mind. Camp masters are often invited to share a meal with the troop. Our troop has a rule if you are one of the required two leaders for a trip the troop pays your meals and fees. If you are an extra beyond the two adults you are expected to pay your own way.

[John-in-KC]

Ahhhhh. You're an ASM.

 

You work for the Scoutmaster. Loyalty.

 

It's time for you to have a quiet cup of coffee with him, and talk about why he does what he does. If there's a logical and workable explanation, fantastic. Case closed.

 

If the explanation is even such you can wrap your head around it, case closed.

 

BUT! If, after that, you cannot wrap your head around it (or you think he's off in left field), the honorable thing to do is ask the CC to put you on the Committee and surrender your position as an ASM.

 

Don't second-guess him from behind. Go visit and sort it out.

[Nike]

From the parent perspective: I expect everyone on a Scout trip to be either registered, a parent/guardian, or an invited expert/support person necessary for the activity. I also would expect an invited guest to be publicly invited and the Committee to know about it beforehand.

 

From the MC perspective: I want to know that invited expert/support guests are there for a legitimate reason. Not because it's the SM's fraternity brother in the area for the weekend. (Of course if said Fraternity brother is a registered Scouter from another council, then I'll chalk that up.) I would be really hot if the SM is using Troop campouts to camp with his buds and they bring nothing to the program. And, believe me, I would bring this up with the CC.

 

Talk to the SM, causually, and find out who and why these guests are there. If he blows you off, you may have other problems.

[scoutingtexas]

I know we have other troubles but just wanted a way to tell an old friend what he did was wrong. The coffee thing didn't work. Am thinking about getting to the SO and tell them top make a review of the people in key situtions. What to do when someone is using Scouts for their own enjoyment.

[Lisabob]

Well I think a lot of scouters "use scouts for their own enjoyment." If that were not the case then many of our adult volunteers would not be here. I don't necessarily see a problem with this, as long as we also recall that scouting is *more than* an opportunity for adults to enjoy themselves. And maybe the SM is attempting to bring along a few new adults who would consider becoming troop leaders at some future point? That could actually be really good news for your troop (the adults have enough fun that they register as ASMs or committee members?).

 

What did you mean when you said you were stuck with the one guest's fees from the previous camp out? Do you mean you personally ended up paying for him? Perhaps what you do need is a clearer set of expectations at the committee level about who pays to attend events. But that's the committee's job, not an ASM's job.

 

Your notion of a form, or formal committee approval of guests for that matter, I find to be too heavy handed a way to address this issue. Not knowing the other dynamics of the troop, it is hard to say what you ought to do. But John's right that this is not the ASMs duty. For that matter, I really don't believe it is the committee's duty either.

 

This doesn't mean I think the SM is 100% on the right track here. It sounds as though he is causing frustrations and tensions where there doesn't need to be any. It would be courteous of the SM to talk with his staff (ASMs) and the CC prior to inviting random buddies along for fun. But I don't think you all have veto power over guests either, unless there's a whole lot more to the story and these guests are acting in highly inappropriate manner around the kids. And so far you haven't suggested that is the case.

 

 

Sounds to me like what you have here is a communication problem and an expectations problem. Forms and "pre-approval" by committee do not solve these types of problems. Talking with each other like reasonable adults is the only serious option.

[John-in-KC]

BTW,

 

All a trip to your Council will do is get your DE to send a Commissioner to pay a friendly visit.

 

If this issue has your knickers really, truly all tied up, then ask your CC to formally visit with the SM, IH, and COR in a somewhat structured setting. If necessary, consider asking your CC to invite your UC in as well.

 

Then... when the Chartered Partner makes a decision (they are the owners of record of the license for your unit), live with it.