Active quatermaster

[Gold Winger]

A Scoutmaster conference is not always an indication that a boy is ready to advance, neither is the Board of Review. It could be the purpose of the conference was to tell your son that he wasn't ready yet.

 

As for the rules being the same in every country, not hardly.

[shortridge]

A few observations:

 

(1) A troop shouldn't be giving out "presents" based on who was "first" to reach a certain rank. The great game of Scouting is not a race. If your troop's leadership views things in this way, it may be best to find another troop on general grounds.

 

(2) If the Scoutmaster thought your son hadn't done the job properly, he should have communicated that. And it sounds like that's what he used the SM conference for. IMHO, he probably should have done it sooner - like explaining in advance to your son that the campouts he didn't attend wouldn't count for his POR term. But he did communicate that.

 

(3) You said your son "was never sure of what he needed to do." If he wasn't sure about his responsibilities, he did have plenty of opportunity to ask in advance. If he wasn't sure about how his Scoutmaster would judge his service, he also had plenty of opportunity to ask in advance.

[international]

Just one more point. One thing that I am not is a hovering parent, and actually I think that's one of the strikes against my sons in that Troop. The kids of the parents that go on camp outs and are always at the meetings they are the ones that get all the breaks, and I did told my sons that in a way, they should have "preferential" treatment, but I CAN'T be that much involve. My husband does drive the Troop kids when needed or sits at meetings when asked, and he did go camping a couple of times maybe, he doesn't care much for scouting, but volunteers when asked as do I(except camping, I don't do that anymore) what we don't do, is "network" at meetings,because really if we aren't needed,we have a lot of other stuff to do to fill our time.

We do do a lot of cooking and cleaning at the other Troop because they have a lot of fundraising meals and our help is need.

 

Answering to another comment. Yes, I am more "connected" with international events, my oldest son did go to the W.Jamboree in England, I do sponsor the JOTA/JOTI every year, and twice a year I do have an information booth at city events about BSA, and BSA international events but I don't see why that should constitute a problem.

 

Scouting is not only international is GLOBAL and yes the next JOTA/JOTI will take place October 18/19, if you never participated in one I strongly recommend it

 

 

 

 

[international]

I found the 2/3 thingy

 

"Attends at least 2/3 of each event type during his service period"

 

What does this mean? My English is not that good

 

http://www.prismatic.com/troop103/jl-jobs.htm#Troop%20Quartermaster

[nolesrule]

Unless your son is a member of Troop 103 in the San Francisco Bay Area Council, that link is not relevant in this discussion. That's an example of one troop setting its own criteria for "serving actively."

[international]

nolesrule;

But really what does that mean?I am not good @

English or math

[nolesrule]

What you saw on that website was specific only to that Boy Scout troop. It does not apply to the troop your son is in.

 

As for what that line means on that website, I'd assume it means that he would need to attend 2 out of every 3 scheduled activites of each type.

 

That means 2 out of 3 camping trips, 2 out of 3 service projects. So if he was QM there were 3 camping trips, he'd need to attend 2. If there were 6, he'd need to attend 4.

 

It's not so simple when you don't have easily divisible things, like what happens if there are 4 activites, or an activity gets canceled that might cause the boy not to meet the criteria, which is why I usually recommend to the units I serve not to include percentages as a criteria.

[international]

Thank you nolesrule

 

[NeilLup]

Hello International,

 

I am sorry that your son had an experience that he found frustrating and negative. I am trying for a moment to look at matters from the point of view of the Troop adults.

 

A Scout is a Troop Quartermaster. His job is to take care of Troop equipment and ensure that it is available, ready for use, etc.

 

He attends one campout

He does not attend another campout.

A third campout is cancelled.

 

You have not said anything about meetings or about what he has done to do his job at meetings or times other than campouts. Has he done anything? What has he done? Having a good excuse for not being at a campout is not doing a job. If the Board of Review would ask "What have you done to do the job of Quartermaster? Let's take a piece of paper and list the pluses and minuses. Did you do a good job?" how would he respond?

 

As far as why the ASM asked for a conference, here I am trying to think like that leader. What would you have them do? The ASM believed that your son potentially met the requirements to go for Star Scout. She invited him to talk. So far, so good. She checked the book for attendance and determined that she thought his service as QM was spotty. She told him that and thought that he should serve longer. Keeping in mind that she is an unpaid volunteer and probably has to deal with a lot of boys and parents, what would you have preferred that she do? Give him a "pass" in spite of thinking that he has done a poor job? Expect him to come to her for the conference? What would you prefer?

 

It strikes me that there are two items here. One is whether your son met the requirement. The other is how he was treated by the ASM. If you have a problem with the latter, I might suggest that you talk with her directly about how to deal with youth. You might say that you aren't talking about whether he met the requirement or not but rather about how her conference struck him.

 

As far as whether he met the requirement, if you have read many of the posts in this forum, and more importantly read the Boy Scout advancement procedures, you will learn that the only requirement for Position of Responsibility is to serve in the office. No attendance requirement or performance requirements are permitted.

 

That isn't saying that units don't impose such requirements; they do. Rather, if a unit does impose such a requirement and refuses to hold an SM conference or Board of Review or fails him at the SM Conference or Board of Review, an appeal to the District or Council advancement committee should result in a reversal of the refusal or failure. If that doesn't produce acceptable results, one can appeal to the National Council. Appeals at the level below Eagle Scout to National are rare but they do happen. But as others have said, if you plan to appeal in this way, it is probably better to go to another unit in connection with the appeal.

 

Scouting is supposed to be a jolly game and fun. Positions of responsibility are supposed to be important learning experiences. With all appropriate respect to you, it is difficult for me to express how much it annoys me when a youth has a position of responsibility, doesn't do it because of "other priorities" and then he and/or his parents think that he still is doing a great job and it's "unfair" to think otherwise. This used to happen to me all the time when I was a SM and it drove me crazy. A Scout would be assigned by the PLC to teach a particular topic at a Troop meeting and accepted that responsibility. When the time came for that topic at the Troop meeting, the Scout would simply not show up. We would muddle through as best we could and I would follow up with his parents and I would be told "He had to do his homework. You don't expect him not to do his homework, do you?"

 

Muttering "A Scout is courteous, A Scout is courteous" under my breath, I tried to keep from screaming "He has known for two weeks that he had this assignment. He knew since school got out at 3PM that he had homework. What were the 20 boys at the meeting supposed to do? What were the 5 adults at the meeting supposed to do?"

 

A position of responsibility is just that, a position of RESPONSIBILITY. It isn't intended to be a pretty badge to wear on the sleeve, a couple of tasks to do when the boy chooses to go to a meeting or a campout and then a trivial stepping stone on the way to advancement. Multi-tasking is a way of life but did your son find someone to cover for him on the campout that he missed? Did he have the equipment all ready to go? Did he take responsibility?

 

Having said that, it seems inappropriate to hold a 12 year old to a standard that a lot of adults don't meet. But it's not a matter of fairness or getting a pass. The question is whether he is learning and displaying responsibility.

 

If his schedule doesn't permit him to do the job of Quartermaster, perhaps some other position of responsibility is available which he can do within his schedule. But the most important questions are whether he is having fun and whether he is learning.

[international]

Thank you so much for your answer,

My son would never expect to be rewarded for something he knew he did'n do, its not him, he helps everyone in his Troop and in his brothers troop without expecting anything in return. Would be against his nature to know that he didn't do the job and expect to be giving a "pass"

 

 

[epalmer84]

http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/RankAdvanceFAQ.aspx

 

Question: For the Star, Life, and Eagle Scout ranks, how is "Be active in your troop and patrol" defined?

 

Answer: A Scout is considered to be active in his unit if:

 

1. He is registered in his unit (registration fees are current).

2. He has not been dismissed from his unit for disciplinary reasons.

3. He is engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis (Scoutmaster conference, informs the Scout of upcoming unit activities, through personal contact, and so on).

 

The unit leaders are responsible for maintaining contact with the Scout on a regular basis. The Scout is not required to attend any certain percentage of activities or outings. However, unit leaders must ensure that he is fulfilling the obligations of his assigned leadership position. If he is not, then they should remove the Scout from that position.

 

 

 

Now, as to active in a position of responsibility, I have not found a BSA policy or guideline.

 

In my opinion, active here means as long as the Scoutmaster and SPL allows the Scout to maintain the position. If the Scoutmaster and SPL feel that one of the youth leaders is not doing the job, then that leader should be counseled; if not effective then he should be replaced and counseled again.

 

You do have to take care to not set the Scout up for failure. The Scoutmaster and SPL have the responsibility to ensure that youth leaders are trained and they understand the duties of their position. The failure of any youth leader reflects back on the Scoutmaster and SPL. While being counseled, the Scout may realize that he cannot perform the job for some reason and will relinquish it.

 

Ed Palmer

[epalmer84]

Please strike from my last post:

 

Now, as to active in a position of responsibility, I have not found a BSA policy or guideline.