Active quatermaster

[international]

My son is a quatermaster, but he only did his job at the sumer camp, he had 2 more camp outs after that where he could've done his job, but one of them he could't make it and the next one was post poned to a latter date when he already had other stuf to do. Now he can advance,to star because he wasn't active has a quatermaster????!

 

I was told that he will need 3 more months has a quatermaster, but I don't know what to believe since I was also told last week that he only needed 1 more week to fufill his requirement

 

 

Is that right?or can I fight the decition

 

Thank you soooo much!

 

[Gold Winger]

If anyone is to fight the decision, it should be your son, not you. Boy Scouting is about letting boys learn to do things for themselves. It sounds like the advancement is more important to you than it is to him.

[international]

I guuess you would understand if you knew the "history". but my son he's ready to fight, he just doesn't know how, right now the only options he sees his to move to another Troop like his 2 brothers did.

 

whatever, I would like to know if the SM is right in refusing the advance.

 

Thank you

[jtswestark]

As a Scoutmaster, I know my troop admittedly doesn't always do as well as we should when guiding Scouts through their leadership term. When faced with this kind of situation I like to ask the young man, if he thinks it's right for him to take credit for a POR that he didn't do anything for - six months of credit for one week or so of work? If it's not sinking in yet, I ask again, 'did you do your best?' Let the Scout make the call. Most Scouts are willing to come up with something to talk about when that registers.

 

Is another few months that big of an issue when the difference is to 'give' versus 'earn' an award? Don't overlook the bigger lesson that your son can learn here. Be patient and help improve the system in your troop.

 

Jack

[international]

It is kind of a BIG deal when its not fair.

My sons, specially this one has being fighting for every single "thing", first was the M.B. records that were misplaced, then he didn't had a POR (was not in the books), then the service hrs......so its not the point of waiting 3 months, or 1 year,btw, he only has to be 4 months in the POR, the point is that its not fair. the kid did the job when he was able to. he wants to change Troops, but, I realy don't want him too,and that, YES, its me.

 

I have been reading about POR, and it says that a scout should at least do 2/3...... is that right, and what does that mean anyway?

 

Thnak you

 

[Gold Winger]

"he kid did the job when he was able to"

 

If you hire a guy to mow your lawn and he doesn't because he has other stuff to do, would you still pay him?

 

"I have been reading about POR, and it says that a scout should at least do 2/3...... is that right, and what does that mean anyway?"

 

Where'd you read that?

[jtswestark]

Obviously I dont know your details so wont be able to do much here, nor will anyone on an internet forum. I can only go by what you tell us, and it appears there has been some history with this leader/unit already, so maybe ongoing issues shouldnt be a surprise? Maybe theres some baggage on either side? Just offering some things to consider. Fairness is very subjective and not always a good platform to plead your case. When there are misunderstandings with a leader, the best thing to do is ask for a few minutes of his time to sit down and talk about what is going on. Get all the expectations out on the table. Sounds like you all are fired up about it, so try and get to the bottom of it face to face with the leader. Let's not pick a fight with the leader, let's find a solution.

 

From the SM point of view, I also know that when a troop has a quartermaster that is not present at campouts, it can be a huge functional problem that adversely affects the whole unit. Unfortunately many Scouts (maybe not yours) like to assume that since they arent going to an event they dont need to do anything to prepare for it. If this were the case, I can understand a leader's frustration with giving a Scout credit, again, for something he didnt do. Regardless, its not fair to the rest of the unit that had to carry the load of a missing QM and those boys definitely see they are maybe being held to a different standard if he gets credit for it. One event, I can understand, but when its multiple times that really makes it difficult to overlook. I learned this the hard way a long time ago that I must make sure I tell them before accepting a POR that if they miss more than one campout they will be replaced. To sustain a properly functioning boy lead troop, theyve got to be there. If theyre playing sports or band or whatever, then they should pass on that leadership term and try again later when they will be able to fully perform the job they want to take on.

 

I can understand the frustration of at the end of the term the Scout suddenly hears he wasnt doing the job. When nobody made any corrective actions along the way the Scout assumes no news is good news and anticipates a signature at the end of his expected term. That isnt correct either. Sounds to me that there needs to be some better communication on both sides to keep expectations clear.

 

I dont recognize the 2/3 is reference, it doesnt ring any bells.

 

Good luck!

JTS

 

[international]

Yes, "he did the job when he was able too" and my husband cuts our lawn.

I am not sure where I read the 2/3, but I will post a link when I find it.

 

Also. I know that in a perfect world my kid would attend every scout activity, unfortunately, he has cross country, math counts, spelling B, academic bowls, and after that he also has a family life, so he missed 1 camp out, and the other one that was rescheduled, he had a college visit for that day, the point is that HE DID HIS JOB.

 

If my son actually didn't deserve to be credit for the quartermaster job, why did they schedule a Scoutmaster conference and when he showed up for it, they told him no, he was not going to have a conference.

 

I am from another country where scouting is co-ed, and I know, I was a scout, c.....happens, but this is really stinking, and I want to know why is it smelling so bad.

 

 

 

[Gold Winger]

"the point is that HE DID HIS JOB."

 

Did he? If he told the cross country coach that he couldn't make a meet because he had a Scouting event, what would happen? Would he still get his letter if he wanted to run but couldn't because of other activities?

 

What about math bowl? If he didn't go to math bowl practices, would he get credit even though he wasn't there?

 

In the end, I'm not in charge of your son's troop. So my opinion doesn't matter but to me, it sounds like your son is overextended and wants special consideration from Scouting because, after all, it is only Scouting and we should be understanding.

[international]

"I can understand the frustration of at the end of the term the Scout suddenly hears he wasnt doing the job. When nobody made any corrective actions along the way the Scout assumes no news is good news and anticipates a signature at the end of his expected term. That isnt correct either. Sounds to me that there needs to be some better communication on both sides to keep expectations clear.

 

I dont recognize the 2/3 is reference, it doesnt ring any bells.

 

Good luck!

JTS "

 

Thank you jtswestark you got my point.

I have been communication daily through e-mails to make sure that all the requirements were being meet, I was at the meeting and talked with the assisting,( the S.M. was busy ) I did ask if it was personal (stupid question I know), and I was calm, it only actually "hit me" when I got home, and I saw my boys ........ I am not overlooking the big lesson, I am actually trying to teach my boys. My son will eventually leave that Troop, but I don't want him to quit, or be pushed out,I want him to leave because the Troop where his brothers are his closer to our house, and because he wants too, not because he feels he has too......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[international]

Gold Winger;

 

At first I thought you "knew me", but obviously you don't, because if you did you would know that my son puts scouts above everything.Yes, he missed meets because he had scouts activities, and yes he missed some other academic practices because of scouts. He was never penalized for it, he knows the rules, he knows how many practices he can miss before he he ts in trouble or before it affects his performance or the groups.

 

My kid he's the first to sign up for any scouts activities,he even does the other troops service projects with his brothers, he's not overextended. He's just a very active boy.

 

So, sorry to disappoint you.

Thank you for your feedback

 

 

 

[Gold Winger]

Hmmmm . . . I was involved in youth sports for over two decades as an official and I never met a high school coach who was understanding about missing games/meets or missing practices. You must live in a very tolerant part of the country.

 

As for disappointment, I'm not disappointed because it is all as I expected.

[Stosh]

Ok, a little Devil's Advocate here:

 

The boy IS the QM, but did he DO the QM job? This is the first question that needs to be addressed.

 

Just because the QM didn't go on the outing, did he check all the gear prior to the event to make sure everything was there that was needed by each patrol? Did he clean out the trailer and pack it with just what was needed and the boys didn't have to dig through the entire troop inventory to get to a backpack stove they needed? When the activity was over, did the QM check in all the equipment to make sure it was properly cleaned, stored and reinventoried back into the troop? Were tents wet and checked out to patrols to dry? Was the trailer back in complete order as it had been before the activity?

 

Showing up at an activity with a QM patch on and unlocking the trailer doesn't constitute DOING the QM job.

 

When the QM was given the responsibility to DO the QM responsibilities, was he properly trained on all the expectations so he could do his job. It shouldn't make one iota bit of difference whether the QM is actually present at an activity, but it makes a world of difference whether he prepared the equipment prior to the event and gathered, cleaned and stored it afterwards. If that be the case, the QM can at his own pace/schedule fulfill his QM responsibilities regardless of his other family, school, and church responsibilities.

 

To me it sounds a little bit like an excuse to not having to fulfill his QM responsibilities if he misses an activity. I'm thinking that the QM of all the POR's doesn't have to actually be 100% present to fulfill his responsibilities. The Bugler has to at least show up and make noise, the QM doesn't if everything is properly prepared in advance.

 

Stosh

[jtswestark]

International I think both GW & I have tried to explain that while we understand your frustrations, there is only one interpretation of whether your son did his job or not that matters, and that is the SMs. If he doesnt feel your son did it, hes not going to sign off. Its as simple as that, right or wrong from your perspective. So to answer your initial question, if you dont agree with that then you need to go to your advancement chair to discuss, and then maybe your committee chair. But I dont think anyone on this or any other board is going to recommend that right off the bat. What we are going to recommend is that a face to face (not email, not phone, not with an ASM) conversation between your son and his SM be held to discuss the expectations of the position and why the SM feels he didnt meet the position needs. It will be the best thing that can be done to get everyone on the same page.

 

Then your son has three choices: accept whatever he tells him, appeal to the committee, or leave and if he appeals to the committee, in some troops you are already heading in a direction that leaving may be best for all as there are probably underlying issues in play. You keep mentioning leaving anyway, so there appears to be a predisposition for that to begin with. Plus, you have other areas of Scouting as an influence another troop and even international Scouting that may greatly differ in customs and courtesies to what this troop has. What is done elsewhere may not be done here the burden is on you and your son to operate within those parameters whether you like it or not. However if thats unacceptable, you can either work to change it or leave. It sounds to me like you, his parent, may be too involved in this for your sons benefit, and he needs to be doing these things. Theres not much that can irritate a Scout leader more than a hovering parent doing things for their son, which again, based upon what you have written sounds like may be going on. Please, dont get defensive at these responses: you asked a question and we can only answer based upon what you are telling us. You may not like our answers, but you asked and we are trying to help. There are a lot of minor subtleties in your posts that are warning signs of other issues we are picking up on.

 

I truly hope you will encourage your son to contact his leader to have a sit down as soon as possible to discuss this situation and that you all keep an open mind to what he has to say.

 

JTS

 

[international]

Thank you!

 

 

jtswestark just gave me the answer that I was looking for, and I will let my son knows and leave him to make the decision.

Before I leave this discussion,I want to thank everyone, that reply to my post , and reiterate that my son is the injured party here .

 

I do have other sons and a daughter that I have to beg for then to get motivated,and involved, but not my youngest son, and it whatever breaks my heart to see him being disappointed time after time for no fault of his own.The world is cruel enough, he doesn't need scouting to add to it.

 

 

 

As far as being too involved in my sons affairs, actually I am not,but I will from now on, because obviously from what I read here and on the net (I didn't find the 2/3 yet, but I will be back as soon as I find it)my son was never sure of what he needed to do, he did it,but maybe because since he's always helping other people, he probably helped the boy that had the job before him, but not, I don't think,because he was conscience that it was HIS job and HIS responsibility.

 

 

 

Also, my son is 12, he's not in high school,and obviously, I must leave in a very tolerant part of the country THANK GOD! and yes he is too young, I know that he has a lot of time for advancement,and I would prefer that he takes his time, but he works hard and unless there's a very good reason,to the contrary, he should be rewarded for it.

 

 

 

There's a lot that I don't know about scouting in the USA,but I do know that the rules are the same in every country only the interpretations varies, that's why I am asking the question.

 

 

 

Yes my son will be leaving that Troop, but I don't think he should leave without resolving the problem. If he was treated unfairly like he thinks and I think, I know that there's not much he can do, but I do think he should have a conversation with the SM, so he at least know's why my son he's leaving and hopefully he will not do the same thing with some other boy.

 

 

 

I encouraged my son not to do or say anything when another boy got "a present' for being the first to reach first class, when actually my son had all the requirements for first class 1 month before that kid. I told him that what it counted was that he KNEW he was the first and he should be happy for his scout friend.

 

 

 

Now, there's no special prize to reach Star, but if he earned it, then he should get it.

 

 

 

I go back to the same question. Why did the Ass.SM told him to go to the meeting ready for a scouts conference, and this after she went through his records with a fine tooth comb? and them he is told that he didn't do the POR so he had to wait another 3 months. He was ready to advance to Star 4 days before and suddenly 4 days after he wasn't?????

 

 

 

I am sorry for the long rant. I am very emotional right now, because more than ever I do think that my kids, specially my youngest he's being unfairly treated for no fault of his own, and that.....