Flag patches on shirts

[scoutingtexas]

I would like the flags on BSA shirts, that are on the right shoulder to have the blue field forward. Why does BSA go against the "blue field closest to the heart" rule of wearing the flag?" How can we get this passed as a rule to be done?

[Gold Winger]

How do you figure that wearing it backwards on the right shoulder puts the blue field closer to the heart?

[SctDad]

Actually the direction of the stripes on the uniform shirt has nothing to do with the blue being close to the heart.

 

THe one point I would like to make is that (I know we are not a military organization) on the US military uniforms the stripes point to the rear as they are worn on the right sleeve. This is because as the flag/colors/guidon are carried into battle, the stripes will be waving to the rear. THus when you see the flags on US military uniforms, they appear with the stripes poiint to the rear.

 

I know that the stripes on the BSA uniforms point to the front. That is something that would have to be brought up to national. You do not need to use the terms like battle colors. Just say that the flag when carried in a formation or parade, the stripes will point to the rear.

 

Here is a little trivia. I think we may have gone over this before. When will you see a flag real or painted (that is a hint) with the stripes pointed to the front and why.

[Gold Winger]

On a sailing ship.

 

BTW, I stand with the idea that the flag on the shirt is a flag displayed against a "wall" and, as such, the canton should be to the viewer's left. Pretty simple idea but back in 1990, the Army ran amok with the idea that that flag should appear as if it was being carried in a charge.

 

Lord knows that I've carried flags for enough miles in parades and at football games (yes, I've been on TV) to know that unless you're running really, really fast, the flag blows whichever way it wants. Forwards, backwards, sideways.

 

I'm still considering removing the flags from my uniforms.(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

[SSScout]

Lessee now... the flag patch comes already attached to the right sleeve, facing correctly if we think of the sleeve as a wall. If we think of the sleeve as a ships mast, the wind blowing the shirt forward can be thought of as blowing the flag that way, too. A parade audience will see the flag on the sleeve passing as if it is on a moving wall. I've never heard the "blue canton/field closest to the heart" thing except when the flag ( a REAL flag) is draped over a casket. Blue canton is over the head and left shoulder.

Now, if the present flag patch were worn on the LEFT sleeve, it would also be correctly displayed as being on a wall.

We could sew it on VERTICALLY, but then the blue canton would have to be on the flag's own right (left as it is viewed by an audience), wouldn't it?

 

Howbout that Earl Battey, uh?

[Gold Winger]

"We could sew it on VERTICALLY, but then the blue canton would have to be on the flag's own right (left as it is viewed by an audience), wouldn't it?"

 

That would give us something to do with all of those backwards flag patches that the Army has.

 

"Howbout that Earl Battey, uh?"

 

Waddabout Frankie Gustine?

[NJCubScouter]

There is a discussion of this at:

 

http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/usflag.htm.

 

The bottom line is, there is no "rule" that says which way the flag goes on a uniform. The military has it go one way, the BSA has it go the other way. It's no big deal.

[Gold Winger]

No big deal except that we have 18 years worth of veterans who think that the Army way is the right way and they keep making a fuss.

[local1400]

Hey GW, I was on T.V. too! That Americas Most Wanted really works! Seriously though, leave the flag alone. There is so much more important than which way the stripes point.

[Gold Winger]

America's Most Wanted? What about "Nightline: To Catch a Scouter"?

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Title IV, United States Code, Chapter 1, Section 8

 

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&docid=Cite:+4USC8

 

You may also find this at the Cornell University US Code site:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/usc_sec_04_00000008----000-.html

 

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic

uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

 

 

 

[Gold Winger]

John, do you have a point? Is this about the "near the hear" thing?

[epalmer84]

This is where we need a "perennial issue list".

 

Bottom line: There is no universal regulation on how flag patches are worn. The U.S Flag Code makes no mention of this.

 

I don't know when it was added to the uniform, but the BSA has been wearing the U.S. flag a lot longer than the current use by the Army.

 

The wear of the "reverse side full-color U.S. Flag cloth replica" by the U.S. Army is governed by AR 670-1.

http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r670_1.pdf

 

I was in a Realtor office yesterday; they had a series of photos of relatives in the military. There was a photo of a Marine captain in Marine Corps Combat Utility Uniform. He was wearing a subdued U.S. flag centered on his armored vest above his rank.

 

I have seen many firefighter and EMS uniforms with the flag worn in the BSA style and some in the reverse style.

 

BTW: If I were still in the Army, the flag would be worn on my right sleeve under the 1st Cav combat patch.

 

If you want to pitch a case to change the flag wear, please don't base it on the Army way is the only way.

 

Ed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SctDad]

Actually ed, if you were in the army now you would wear the flag on the right shoulder ABOVE you unit patch. That is the new standard with the ACU (Army Combat Uniform).

 

"No big deal except that we have 18 years worth of veterans who think that the Army way is the right way and they keep making a fuss"

 

I did not say that this was the RIGHT and ONLY way. I simply stated the way that the Military does it. And as to why they display it the way they do. I have no leg to stand on with the way that the BSA does it. 'Displayed as on as wall' or 'on the uniform as we would naturally see it.' THis is the regulation of the BSA. If you think that it should be changed, then petition the BSA uniform board.

 

The military started using the flags on the uniform so that when they were deployed with multinational forces, it was easier to identify who was from what country. In the beginning it was only for those who deployed but with the GWOT everyone started wearing them, mostly because everyone was deploying.

 

That is my opinion, not that of anyone else, or the BSA.

[Gold Winger]

"I did not say that this was the RIGHT and ONLY way."

 

I never said that YOU did but there are many veterans out there whose only exposure to flag protocol was in the Army and they think that the Army way IS the only way.