Non-Working Scout

[OldGrayOwl]

What do you do with a Scout that won't work with his patrol, in fact he goes way out of his way to get out of the work assigned to him be his patrol leader?

 

He gets to work when he sees an adult coming over to him, but when there are no adults within sight, he just goofs off and is belligerent to his patrol leader.

[Bob White]

How did you eplain the problem to him? What was his explanation when you talked to him about his behavior?

[OldGrayOwl]

I asked him what was going on and he said that he just doesn't like having kids tell him what to do. He thinks that only adults should be the ones to tell him what to do.

 

I explained that this isn't Cub Scouts any more where the adults are the ones doing the leading, but Boy Scouts, where it is the youth that are doing the leading. He just doesn't like that.

 

This past weekend he went to great pains to avoid any task that the patrol leader asked him to do, even the tasks on the duty roster.

 

I explained the patrol method to him, but he doesn't want to buy it.

[scoutldr]

The correct question should have been "What did the SPL say to him".

 

You didn't mention the age of the scout in relation to the PL. That could have a bearing. It may come to the point where I would also have a chat with his parents and let them know that their son does not agree with Scouting's methods and perhaps he needs to find an organization more in line with how he thinks the world should be.

[Bob White]

Sounds more like a lecture than a converstaion that you had with him oldgrayowl.

 

Talk with him again and this time ask more questions rather than telling him things. Ask how he thinks things should get done in a patrol, ask him how he would get things done if he was the patrol leader, ask why he feels others should work but not him?

 

Guide him in a conversation where your questions and his answers guide him to the right behavior. At the very worst you will each come away with something to think about you'll each and have a little better understanding of his behavior.

 

If he simple refuses to help be a part of the patrol I would allow him to go home and do other things that he enjoys more.

 

 

[NancyB]

We have this issue in my son's troop and it's the scoutmaster's son. Which makes it a little more touchy to say anything. We've been hoping that the peer pressure would work, but he's pretty oblivious to it.

[gcnphkr]

 

We have this issue in my son's troop and it's the scoutmaster's son. Which makes it a little more touchy to say anything. We've been hoping that the peer pressure would work, but he's pretty oblivious to it

I just do not understand this. If you have the sort of Scoutmaster that either runs interference for his son or that would not allow his son to be disciplined by others then it is time to get a new Scoutmaster.

[Gunny2862]

OldGrayOwl,

scoutldr and Bob White have nailed it.

 

The discussion about how he would do it will(most likely) also reveal that he wouldn't really prefer to be told how or what to do by the adults. And that he really would prefer to either be in charge or not to have to do anything. And possibly, as occasionally happens, that if he were in charge that he wouldn't set chores for himself since he's in charge.

 

The discussion, however it goes, will open the door for him to see why the adults aren't running the show.

 

If he can't/won't buy in after another month or so of discussion on the topic then maybe the remedy of his finding another activity is the one to pursue.

 

 

 

As to Scoutmasters running interference for their sons.

begin rant...

 

Hey people we are parents also. True, some of us do go to far, but some of us have harder relationships with our sons because we refuse to run that interference especially if it isn't something we would do for any other Scout. In some cases it is a hard line because we are having to balance what would we do as a parent and what would we do as a Scout Leader and occasionally we wind up with conflicting interests in that place. So far, I have always come down on the Scouting side of the equation and thus far the boy has understood that I am also in a POR and have to hold the line on rules so that others can't run roughshod over the rules.

 

A little peaceful discussion with the Scoutmaster who isn't meeting your expectations in some area(not going in prepared for a battle and especially not the knee jerk "hey lets get rid of him" mindset)(aside, the comment above really got my goat if you can't tell) may yield a lot better dividends than you think. Especially if you start and finish by recognizing the time and effort he spends in areas where he IS meeting the Troops needs.

 

Boy, I'll tell you my life would be a whole lot easier if the parents came after me and wanted me to step down. I'd still register as an ASM and go on every regular outing(if they allowed me to stay registered) but no more going to every Training, roundtable, fundraising meeting and event, doing training for other Scout leaders, OA events, PLC meetings AND Troop Meetings and doing the work of half of a Committee, oh and I have two patrols without an ASM but hey it's only a little more work. I am currently seeing one and occasionally two weekends a month at the house. Which wind up being honeydo catch up weekends... no wonder SM's burn out.

 

Oh, and while I'm on a rant... How about parents stepping up and actually filling all of the spots on the Committee or becoming an active ASM? Do you ever stop and think who winds up doing those jobs when you choose not to give a little bit of your time. I'll give you a clue it usually isn't the CC. There may be some great CC's out there who let the SM do his job and only his job but I haven't seen it yet in any of the Troops I have run into or talked to the other local SM's. And while you may think it is only a little bit no big deal well when you start adding that fourth or fifth hat it is all of a sudden a really big deal.

 

Large breath...

 

end rant.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

[NancyB]

No one wants to get rid of the scoutmaster b/c no one wants to the job. It's difficult in any setting to put limits on someone else's child. No matter how nicely done, no one wants to offend the other parent. It's a tightrope to walk in that situation. I am a believer in whomever sees the misbehavior address it (not saying punish or anything like that, just a quiet comment to the child) b/c it's more effective, esp. with younger children, if the behavior is called to their attention when it occurs. But not everyone feels that way and there are some people who are extremely offended whenever someone says anything negative about their child.

[Twocubdad]

I concur with the others as to the BSA way of handling the situation. I may put more emphasis on working with the patrol leader and senior patrol leader to solve the problem, rather than making it my problem to solve.

 

Something else to consider is how the rest of the boys react to this boy's laziness. (Yes, let's call it what it is.) If you will recall the Ages and Stages video from New Leader Essential training, boys this age are all over what is fair. You can bet next week's check that the other boys in the patrol are keeping an exact account of what this kid is and isn't doing. No one likes to continually take up the slack for some else's laziness. Eventually, the pack will take care of itself, and it frequently isn't as pretty, politically correct, helpful or friendly as we adults would like.

 

I've had this or similar problems pop up several times. I try to give the Scout and his parent's a preview of the likely outcome of this behavior. Developing a reputation of being a slackard or someone who cannot be relied upon isn't a fun place to be. It may not change the boy's behavior short term, but when the next conversations begins "They're picking on me," "They won't let me do anything," or "No one likes me," it gives you a good place to start that conversation.

 

As to the SM running interference for his son, I'll second Gunny's rant. Until I had a chance to hike in his boots, I'd cut the guy some slack. Whether it's the preacher's kid or the teacher's kid, most kids in this situation usually have a tougher row to hoe because of their parent's involvement in whatever program.

 

There have been times I have run interference for my sons. But from time to time I run interference for all my Scouts. Before throwing stones, I would be very careful to make sure I'm looking at the situation objectively myself.

[Gunny2862]

Not ranting...

 

Yes, some parents are overly sensitive to having any fault or failure of their child called to attention. The below won't fix the situation but is how we try to handle it.

 

First we don't spend a lot of time on this issue as a rule but have some informal guidelines in place for when it does happen.

 

In our Troops case it is understood and talked about to new parents especially those who camp even once with the Troop that:

1) It is up to the Pl's and SPL to enforce Troop expected behavior to include the performance/duties to satisfactory standards of chores/duties.

2)That when that falls short or if there is an immediate hazard which the aforementioned parties aren't acting on that the parent/adult/Uniformed Scouter has the prerogative to fix that portion of the activity.

3) That it is expected that if a Scout isn't heeding the PL or SPL that the matter will NOT be referred to that Scouts parents by another adult or the appropriate youth leader and that any other adult of the Troop will talk to the Scout about it. By the time I hear about MY son misbehaving in this way, I either saw it and waited for that other adult to bring me in as his parent, or didn't see it and am in the same boat as any parent that I am calling about what their son did.

 

On a good/(most) weekend/(s), I wind up with a very minimal exposure to my own son except that he insists on riding to and from with me... probably because I listen to his music. (This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

[emb021]

FWIW, I had a similiar problem when I was a SPL.

 

I had one kid who's attitude was that only his parents or another adult could 'tell him what to do', not some other kid.

 

Sorry to say, I'm not sure how this was resolved or if the kid just eventually dropped out.

 

[John-in-KC]

Allow me to offer today's Blinding Flash of the Obvious:

 

This young man is in full up authority rebellion. He's jerking the chain looking for the reaction.

 

Has anyone thought of taking this young man aside and having a long, long talk with him ... letting him do 80-90% of the talking and doing some active listening? There's a root problem somewhere that he's acting out by refusing to be a team player. I sure as heck cannot tell you what it is from here, but the description fits the mold of the problem pretty well.

 

This is also one of those times where the Scouts parents need to be consulted ... independently and with privacy/respect. You're not going to solve the problem of team playing if you don't determine the source of the dynamic.

 

Tongue now firmly in cheek...

 

Or you can do nothing, and watch your PL/SPL get frustrated, or worse, lose it and punch the kids lights out...

 

Or you can just remove the kid from your troop, and hope he's not in trouble with the gendarmerie a year from now....(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Gunny2862]

John, I fully agree, as usual.

 

In my contextual view, I kind of read Bob and scoutldr and myself as saying the same thing.

[Docrwm]

Great recommendations. Might it also help to point out that the SPL and other scouts have earned their positions and have their authority because of their hard work and achievement?