Actual Organization Matters

[BrotherhoodWWW]

In the parent topic Scouter760 discusses the mis-application of boards of review with his unit sitting a youth member. Beavah asks what his CO relationship is like. Not surprising it is one where the CO is not participatory. It seems to me that the farther folks get from the BSA model of an active participating CO the more likely they also do not follow the program as presented by BSA. At least in the Units that I'm familiar with in my district this seems to be the case.

 

Contrast this with the ideal of a CO that has a dedicated COR who is both trained and active. I could only guess that even though the makeup of the committee might be the same, there might be a different vision and focus. What are your thoughts?

[acco40]

It is necessary the someone be aware of the BSA program and understand that as Scouters, that is what we signed up to deliver. That could be any number of individuals - the unit leader (i.e. Scoutmaster), COR, Committee Chair, active Unit Commissioner, etc. ideally, it would be every adults - registered and non-registered. For continuity's sake, a COR would be ideal but not a necessity.

 

I know I've spent over 50% of my time trying to educate adults who question why we do things a certain way - usually in a nonconstructive way. The usual answer is, of coursse, that we do things not because it is the way I prefer but it is simply the program.

[Beavah]

Yah, BrotherhoodWWW, I agree with your insight, eh? In fact, I've seen internal studies within the BSA that show units with a committed, permanent CO fare better in da long run than things like "friends of Troop 223" parent groups.

 

Havin' watched this over the years, I think it relates to acco's point, eh? Da presence of a CO brings with it a certain set of values. In a way, even just da occasional involvement of the CO sets a tone which keeps everyone on the same page in terms of goals for that particular unit. That tone attracts like-minded families who want not just Scouting for their child, but that kind of Scouting. Mormon scouting. Catholic Scouting. VFW Scouting. High Adventure LNT Scouting. Drop-in recreation program Scouting. Whatevah.

 

What happens when a CO gets too remote, or there's an improvised CO like "Parents of...", is that yeh get new parents joinin' who don't hear da values message, and bring their own agenda. Eagle should be tough, Eagle should be easy so my kid can get it fast, everything will be perfect so long as we read da book, the book should be ignored because I know better, whatever. Those internal squabbles among adults over goals and values only happen when there isn't a shared vision. And there often isn't a shared vision because da CO isn't there to gently project its own, preferred vision.

 

Yah, sure, a long-term, well-respected Scoutmaster can sometimes be da "keeper of the flame" in terms of vision, eh? But even they eventually drift off, or keel over. Real long-term vision comes from an interested and (lightly) involved CO.

 

Beavah

 

[Rythos]

"Real long-term vision comes from an interested and (lightly) involved CO."

 

I'll second Beavah in regards to the lightly portion of his statement. I am a Den leader in a Pack that has a heavily involved COR who is a lot like my father in that he fails to understand that Kids cannot be expected to act like adults all the time. He gave a five minute speach at our first pack meeting of the year about how he was disapointed at the way the kids talked too much, were not sitting up straight in the pack meeting, and that some of the scouts uniform shirts had become untucked. In my opinion the scouts had done nothing overly wrong. Kids locked up in what turned out to be a more informational than a hands on engaging meeting are going to have a hard time sitting still.

 

The COR's participation in this meeting essentially killed any desire that I'd had for possibly taking over as Cub Master in a few years. With the mass defection of leadership and an issue with a specific leader last year the mostly inactive COR has decided to go to the other extreme. The program is supposed to be fun and starting out the year (and scouting for all the new Tigers) with a speech on he's disapointed in the kids for being kids is telling to me about how the rest of the relationship between the Pack and the CO is going to be.

 

CO's own the program for sure, and COR represent the CO's obviously, but at the end of the day I think they should be a bridge between the CO and the Adult Leaders communicating what the CO wants the program results to be, not taking center stage at the Pack Meeting and telling the boys how disapointed he is.

 

It would appear that too active can be just as bad as inactive,

 

Ry

 

 

[ElyriaLeader]

I feel for you Rythos, although we had it the other way with our pack CO, kind "oh I'm sorry we booked someone else into your meeting slot" or "if you want to use the hall for your gathering (b/g banquet) you'll need to pay $XX" not being able to even count on them for meeting space can really hinder unit morale and therefore growth.

[Gold Winger]

" Kids locked up in what turned out to be a more informational than a hands on engaging meeting are going to have a hard time sitting still"

 

It's all a matter of expectations. I grew up Russian Orthodox and anyone who has been to ANY Orthodox service knows that even a brief service is long. As children, we were expected to sit quietly for two hours so we did. Oh yeah, we wore suits too.

 

Of course, we live in the video game world where kids can't focus for more than 30 seconds and no one is willing to hold their children to any standard of appearance or behavior. Since we can't expect them to sit quietly and remain dressed, they won't.

 

Then again, the adults aren't any better. Untucked shirts, caps on backwards, yakking in the back of the room. How can we possibly expect more from children than we get from the adults?

[Buffalo Skipper]

**** we interrupt this thread for a brief hijack ****

At our CoH on Monday, we had one young brother (2nd grade) who was quietly playing a video game in the back, and he had 7 (...count them s-e-v-e-n....) other games spread out on the table in front of him in case he was bored with the one he was playing. Talk about having the attention span of a gnat....

**** we now return you to your regular discussion ****

[Novice_Cubmaster]

GW - you got to SIT during a Russian Orthodox service??? I remember standing for what seemed like hours. And at Easter, it was for hours - but the food afterward made up for it.

 

But I digress. Our CO is fairly hands off, and yet, somehow we manage to follow the BSA program - values & all. It really boils down to having a majority of leaders in the unit & CO that support following the program.

 

By the way, many church CO's have leader turnover every couple of years - so, you may have more continuity and long term vision in your unit's leadership than in the CO.

 

NC