"Authority" for flag retirement?

[nolesrule]

"Silly people try to create symbolism where none exists."

 

That's a paraphrase of what I said during the 10 semesters of English Lit courses I was required to take in high school and college.

 

And yet we still give meaning to those pieces of literature that may or may not have been the author's intent.

 

The flag itself is a symbol, so using symbolism in a flag retirement ceremony to help instill or enhance a sense of patriotism is more than appropriate for the occasion. Why NOT make the ceremony more meaningful by doing more than just throwing a flag on a fire if one chooses?

 

 

As for protesters lighting themselves on fire, I didn't ask if it has happened. Of course it has. I asked if it was respectful and dignified. Besides, setting oneself on fire is not the same as setting someone else on fire, just as the flag does not set itself on fire. Last time I checked, being burned alive was considered a to be a disrespectful and undiginified method of capital punishment.

[Gold Winger]

If I set you on fire, it would be with the greatest respect and dignity.

[nolesrule]

I appreciate that.

[Crew21_Adv]

oldsm,

 

 

One evening retreat ceremony at Summer Camp a few years ago. We had one Troop, which had requested to conduct a flag retirement ceremony on the first day of camp.

 

The camp was ready for a dignified ceremony. It was pretty good. But the Scoutmaster stood up infront of about 150 Scouts, and proudly proclaimed. As he emphasized certain words.

 

"THE Boy Scouts of America is THE ONLY organization authorized BY CONGRESS to conduct a flag retirement ceremony".

 

Quiet a few of the other leaders ears (and alertness) perked up. But no one wanted to correct him. (It wasn't that big of a deal to interrupt the ceremony) It was a good brief, but dignified and honorable ceremony. Though our fellow leaders were concerned that the boys received the correct statement, and did not take it as law and spread a Urban Scouting Legend.

 

We just thought it was humorous and odd, that our fellow Scoutmaster had sincerely believed Scouting was the only organization exclusively allowed by law.

 

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[BSAChaplain]

I have attended many retirements. I heard a military parent/Scout tell the entire camporee that the BSA was one of the four non-military groups permitted. That night everyone was trying to figure out who else might make the list. I was certain it was erronous, but what can you do.

 

I prefer to think of the "burning" as a cremation. It is a fitting end for one who has served well over the years.

 

-Karl

http://www.powayventuring.com

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

The Troop I serve will do a flag retirement now and then according to the method I explained. I am always careful to point out that we are retiring, not burning the flag. Semantics yes, and least I be termed antisemantical, I dont want the talk up and down the lockers in the school hall on Monday that Tommy's Troop burned American Flags over the week end, retiring the flags is so much better.

[NeilLup]

Many, many years ago (1973 to be exact) I was directing a Wood Badge course in Southern California. The camp had an old flag and asked if we would like to retire it as part of a closing ceremony. I thought that was a great idea.

 

Note that at the time, I was an Air Force officer on active duty and there were two other Air Force personnel on staff.

 

So we had what I considered a nice dignified retirement ceremony at the closing ceremony. Very touching, I said to myself. "Well done, Neil, you've done it again :)"

 

I went from the ceremony to the showers where, in the dark, a couple of participants were expressing extreme anger that we had just had a FLAG BURNING at Wood Badge. To which I said to myself. "Neil, you've done it again."

 

Things were different then.

[CalicoPenn]

I agree with the sentiment that you don't want to toss it on the grill before you cook up your steak dinner. You definitely want to cook the steaks first, then toss the flag on the grill (grin).

 

To be more serious, I've heard (and haven't been able to verify, but I wouldn't have a problem with it) of an ex-Marine organic farmer who will accept cotton flags (and only cotton flags - no nylon or polyester), and hold a dignified ceremony prior to shredding the flag into fine pieces, which he then composts (as the flag has already been destroyed, he's not composting the flag, but it composting pieces of cotton) and uses the compost to fortify his soil. I like the symbolism of "Life to Death to supporting new Life".

 

I once heard the same story that the BSA is one of only four non-military organizations that were authorized by Congress to retire flags (and I knew is was BS then) - I heard it was the Boy Scouts, the Girl Scouts, the American Legion and the Veterans of Foriegn Wars.

 

Calico

[WAKWIB]

OK. I have been a very bad boy. I never saw or participated in a flag retirement ceremony until I rejoined Scouts as a leader. Having heard that line about BSA being "authorized" to do flag retirements from several Scouters with way more experience than me, I assumed it was gospel. And I have shared that urban legend with others. I stand corrected.

You have my permission to toss me on the grill!

[Be_Prepared]

As a side note to the cutting of the flag. At the council summer camp I am associated with, there is a flag retirement ceremony every week. The flags used are usually quite large - 12 to 15 feet long. They are cut as a practical matter, since it's about impossible to put one that large on the fire whole. I've often thought that that was the genesis of the tradition of cutting the flag - it was just a practical matter, and that gradually lead to people cutting up smaller flags.

 

For the smaller flags, we just put them on the fire in their tri-fold state. Usually 1 large flag and a few smaller flags are retired each week. The council gets over 500 flags a year dropped off at their offce to be retired, and the staff has a few retirement only campfires during the summer to retire large groups of flags. The key is that the fire has to be roaring pretty good, and built in a log cabin style, so the flags can be placed on top.

[SctDad]

One other thing that I have heard through suggestions.

 

When you are preparing the flag. Tie a piece of wire to the grommets before the flag goes into the fire. This will help facilitate with the retrieval. Then after you retrieve them all, you could present them to a veterent organization to place on grave markers of those who served.

 

Remember, the fire should not be used after for anything else nafter the ceremony until cleaned up.

 

That is just something that I saw one time reading.

[SWScouter]

WAKWIB, should we throw you on the grill before or after the flag?

[SWScouter]

For the past several years, a mass flag retirement has occurred during an OA ordeal at Camp Raymond, near Flagstaff, AZ. Last year well over 400 flags were retired. Many of them were large garrison flags and one was probably 40' or more long. None of these flags were cut in pieces before being placed on the fire. It would take several people to retire these flags. The flag would be stretched out, some needed people under the flag to keep it aloft. Then, on command, everyone would walk forward feeding the flag into the fire. Grommets from all flags are removed before the flags are retired and placed on wire from coathangers. the cloth is burned off the grommets separately (in the same fire) and all grommets are retrieved and taken care of properly. Unfortunately, I was travelling last weekend and was unable to attend this years ceremony.

 

SWScouter

[gcnphkr]

oops(This message has been edited by jet526)

[gcnphkr]

SWScouter,

 

The son was on a ceremony team. He said they started Friday night from about 6:00 - 10:00. Kept the fire going all night and started in again after breakfast until about 3:00 Saturday afternoon. I may have to go next year just to watch.