"Authority" for flag retirement?

[oldsm]

My local council newsletter, just published, has an article in it about how each of the closing campfires at Cub Scout resident camp included a flag retirement ceremony. This was something different that was quite meaningful (the intent and thrust of the article). However, the article contains the following statement:

 

"The BSA is one of a few organizations authorized to conduct these flag retirement ceremonies."

 

From the US Code, Title I, Chapter 4, Section 8(k): The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

 

Period. The Code statement is ADVISORY - not prescriptive. Nowhere in it is there any mention of WHO can destroy the flag. By inference, that right is reserved for ALL the people of the country. So, where does BSA (specifically, my council) come up with their statement? Is it legitimate? Or is it just another urban legend that is getting a breath of fresh life through erroneous repetition?

 

I asked the newsletter's editor and my DE, but I've not heard back yet.

[John-in-KC]

Anyone who can destroy a Flag with dignity and respect can conduct a flag retirement.

 

Just don't throw it on the BBQ fire as you're starting the weekly family steak grilling.

 

Personally, I like the 2 fire method. One for the Body of stripes, 1 for the field of stars. Cut them one from the other, so you're destroying 2 pieces of cloth, not a flag.

 

Nothing official, just a personal preference.

[oldsm]

Thanks, John.

 

My troop has done flag retirements (very respectfully, btw) for several years. We'd never think of tossing one on the BBQ. For those who are network news addicts, we've also addressed the "respectful" nature of burning as opposed to the headline-grabbing protesters who like to wrap themselves in the flag or make a spectacle out of burning the flag in anger.

 

My troop (myself included) prefers to burn the flag in its entirely. Otherwise, you are essentially destroying the flag by cutting. (And what about all the little threads that inevitably fall to the ground?) My guys prefer to have some suitable words spoken and sort of "drink in" the moment instead of having everyone present having to place a piece on the fire. They say that they think it's kind of hokey and disrespectful.

 

Different strokes for different folks, yes?

[OldGreyEagle]

the troop of my youth used to do quite a few flag retirements, the four corners would have a cord tied to them and then the flag would be brought over the flames, the fabric would catch the updraft of the flames and be pushed up, the four cord holders would slowly lower the flag towards the flames, usually about 1-2 inches from the flames, the flag would almost glow, and then burst into flmes, having never touched the ground, the embers or the flames. Done at night, its quite dramatic.

 

Always thought that was the best way, but then with dignity and respect is the requirement that matters, everything else is up to you

[Twocubdad]

Several years ago, when the pack first wanted to do this, we did a good bit of Internet research on the subject. Every site had some different way of retiring a flag and they all claimed to be the only correct method.

 

After reading the actual flag code, we came up with a respectful program that worked for our Scouts.

[shortridge]

You're right. There is no such authority, and your council ought to apologize and run a correction.

 

This is just one example of the many misconceptions and outright falsehoods that folks spread about the flag (i.e., it can't touch the ground or you have to burn it). It is a source of constant amazement to me how many ordinarily intelligent adults can get so worked up and lose their skepticism when it comes to the American flag.

 

The idea from OGE about using cords is interesting. As part of a two-person disposal team, I've almost gotten burnt several times - and my partner did get singed once, expressing his displeasure with a non-Scoutlike word. We had a surplus of old flags and did a retirement ceremony at the closing resident camp campfires, just like oldsm described in his council.

[Stosh]

There is no authorization necessary to burn a flag. Anyone can do it in any fashion they feel like, both respectfully and disrepectfully. The boys should be able to find their comfort zone between those two benchmarks.

 

We run the flag one more time up the flag pole, salute it with pledge, retrieve it. Fold it, which is it's natural state when not on display and place it in the fire folded. The boys hold a salute in silence until the flag is no longer recognizable. The grommets are retrieved when the fire burns down and returned to the original owner of the flag. The flag may have been a veteran's pall.

 

Stosh

[OldGreyEagle]

Did I mention it took four people to do it? Each had a corner and about 6 feet of cord, that way the flag could be raised up by the updraft before bringing it back and the holders didnt get singed

[Gold Winger]

"Personally, I like the 2 fire method. One for the Body of stripes, 1 for the field of stars. Cut them one from the other, so you're destroying 2 pieces of cloth, not a flag."

 

Once you cut it up, it is no longer a flag so doesn't need to be burned. If you want to treat it with respect, don't dismember it, cremate it whole. You wouldn't chop us your grandmother, would you?

[nolesrule]

Separating a flag as part of a retirement ceremony is not undignified ("dignified" being the requirement). It is being returned to its original fabric components, assuming it was stitched together from multiple pieces. It would still be preferable to burn the components rather than throw them in the trash.

 

As long as it is done with respect, it doesn't matter whether the cloth is separated first or just burned.

[Gold Winger]

The flag code refers to the flag as a "living" thing. Since when is it dignified or respectful to rend a living thing into pieces. Just burn the flag as it is, a flag, and not a bunch of scraps.

[red feather]

The troop that I serve retires 15 to 20 flags a year with dignity and respect. One question that has arisen over the last few years is the retirement of nylon flags. The burning of nylon is not what is considered enviromentaly proper by many. Any alternatives out there?

 

yis

red feather

[Gold Winger]

The flag code says that the preferred method is burning but doesn't preclude other methods. I'd say that if you dismember the flag, it is no longer a flag and can be disposed of by sealing it in a bag and placing it in a dumpster with reverence.

 

 

[nolesrule]

"The flag code refers to the flag as a "living" thing. Since when is it dignified or respectful to rend a living thing into pieces. Just burn the flag as it is, a flag, and not a bunch of scraps."

 

Since when is it dignified or respectful to burn a living thing?

 

(I believe "touche" would be the appropriate response to that)

 

It's not all about what you do, but the manner in which you do it.

 

Burning isn't a required method of retiring the flag, and there are many dignified and respectful ceremonies that include separating the field of stars from the stripes. It's not improper, it's not in violation of the U.S. Flag Code, so why be so argumentative on the subject?

[Gold Winger]

Protesters have lit themselves on fire for centuries.

 

" there are many dignified and respectful ceremonies that include separating the field of stars from the stripes. It's not improper, it's not in violation of the U.S. Flag Code, so why be so argumentative on the subject? "

 

Because it is silly. Once the flag is dismemebered, it is no longer a flag. Silly people try to create symbolism where none exists.