Question re inappropriate scout leader relationships

[NancyB]

I have not been able to get any guidance for this issue in my son's troop. I hope this isn't an inappropriate subject for this message board, but I really don't know how to handle this problem. A married male leader (who is not the actual scout master) is currently involved in some type of romantic relationship with another female leader. He previously had an affair with a different female married leader. I don't think this is idle gossip b/c he hasnt' been very discreet. My main question is whether there is some type of boy scout policy on relationships like this? Should the scout master address the issue? It is a big topic of discussion among the parents and it is detrimental to the troop.

 

I also worry about the example this is setting for my child and I am strongly considering looking for another troop for my son. This is not the moral example that I want to see for my son in scouting. I like the benefits of scouting for my son, but I don't want him to think I condone this behavior.

 

Any input you can give to this would be very appreciated.

[Gold Winger]

I don't think that there is an official Boy Scout policy regarding hanky-panky providing the hankying and pankying doesn't take place at Scouting functions. However, it would bother me too and I'd have a conversation with the committee chair or the charter org rep.

 

If they aren't willing to do anything, it might be time to look for a new unit.

 

The guy's wife could accidentally find out about the hanky and panky.

 

[Gunny2862]

I would think this would fall on the Committee Chair to discuss the finer points of adult behavior among the adults serving the Troop.

 

Leave the Scoutmaster free to concentrate on the Scouts.

[Bob White]

If you have concerns over the moral or ethical behavior of another adult the first step would be to talk to that adult yourself, anthing else is simply gossiping.

 

Let him know that you feel his behavor in front of the scouts towars the other woman is inappropriate and that his private business needs to remain private. You can tell him that if his behavior continues to suggest any impropriety in front oof the scouts that you will address the issue with the troop committee chairman, and the head of your charter organization or the charter organization representative.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[eisely]

I am not aware of any BSA policies on this matter. If there were I am sure that Bob White would have mentioned it. (BW - that is intended as a compliment, not a slam)

 

The only rule that I can think about that might apply regards the sleeping arrangements on outings. Adults of the opposite sex cannot share a tent on an outing.

 

Speaking to the adult leader directly and/or the committe chair would be your first, and perhaps only, steps.

[Eamonn]

Hi NancyB

You ask:

"My main question is whether there is some type of boy scout policy on relationships like this?"

The quick answer is No.

However one of the methods of Scouting is "Associations With Adults." The BSA web site states:

Boys learn a great deal by watching how adults conduct themselves. Scout leaders can be positive role models for the members of the troop.

On that same page it also states:

Like other phases of the program, Boy Scouting is made available to community organizations having similar interests and goals. Chartered organizations include professional organizations; governmental bodies; and religious, educational, civic, fraternal, business, labor, and citizens' groups. Each organization appoints one of its members as the chartered organization representative. The organization is responsible for leadership, the meeting place, and support for troop activities.

As you see it does say that The organization is responsible for leadership.

If you are unhappy with the leadership and maybe don't feel comfortable talking to the person one on one or face to face you might want to talk to the person in charge of the organization who charters the Troop or his Representative who looks after the Troop.

Details of the page I quoted can be found at:

http://www.scouting.org/Media/FactSheets/02-503.aspx

 

Eamonn.

[Docrwm]

The answer to "Is there a BSA policy" is more complicated than that offered here. Basically, the CC, COR, and even in some limited cases the Unit Commissioner have latitude in removing volunteers whose behavior is not in keeping with the ideals of Scouting. If the behavior is indiscreet (I said IF), and that means that things are occurring in front of the boys then infidelity, etc., could (again I said COULD)be grounds for removal of the volunteer.

 

That said, talking directly to the volunteer first is recommended. If that does not result in a positive resolution then the Comm Chair is your next stop.

 

Bottom line is that you can always find another Troop but that is certainly not desirable.(This message has been edited by docrwm)

[Beavah]

Yah, be very, very careful about gossip and repeatin' gossip.

 

Yeh can do a world of hurt to other peoples' reputations. And if not provably true, they can do a world of hurt to you by way of a defamation claim. The claims you're makin' here on this board, if you repeat 'em to others with a name attached, you are rightly liable for. There lie dragons.

 

I think if you address this at all, you address specific observed behaviors that you have personally witnessed and not accusations of infidelity. Discreetly. To the male leader in question privately, and then perhaps to the Chartered Organizational Rep. or Institution Head of the CO privately - but only if the CO is one that shares your personal values as an institution. Your values on romantic behavior and flirting, that is, not your values on gossip - the IH should be someone like a pastor who has a much better sense of discretion on the latter. So if the troop is chartered by your church, for example, yeh might mention your concern to the pastor, as much to provide a path to counseling and help for the man and his family as anything.

 

Then yeh butt out, and make your own decision with regard to where your son does his Scouting.

 

Beavah

 

[NeilLup]

There is, to my knowledge, no explicit BSA policy.

 

I know of cases where adult leaders have been removed from their Scouting jobs because of extramarital relationships. For an individual unit, this can be done by the COR or by the IH. To be removed from all Scouting, the action would be taken by the local council Scout Executive. For the latter, the situation needs to be quite egregious.

 

I also know of cases where marriages have come apart because of relationships which started through Scouting. It happens. Just because two adults put on Scout leader uniforms does not mean that they aren't human and that they don't act on their biological urges.

 

What to do. As others have suggested, you can talk with one or more of the individuals involved. However, they may very well regard you as a busybody. You certainly can ask individuals to be more discreet. You can say, presumably with truth, that your son has asked what their relationships is and you really don't want to go there.

 

You can talk with the the CC, the COR or IH or the Commissioner or DE. However, they may well not want to get involved or they may not find the situation as requiring of change as you do.

 

Much depends upon how overt and how egregious the individuals involved are. You may be scandalized. The Scouts may barely notice. Impossible to say without being there.

 

And finally, you can go to another unit.

[NancyB]

Thank you so much for all of your insight. The marriage of the first woman he had an affair with ended in divorce b/c of the relationship which is how all of this came out into the open. It is just very frustrating when the council keeps praising his leadership abilities but there are families that are talking about leaving the troop b/c of his behavior. I would hate to see a good troop be destroyed b/c of one person. My son has friends in this group so I don't want him to leave his group, so it is not an easy choice. I understand that relationships like this can happen but it is not the role model I want for my child in a scout leader.

 

 

[Eagle92]

As a former pro who had a very similar situation arise in a unit in his district, I can tell you that from the council's perspective it's "a unit problem." and they will not get involved. Now if it is a district chairman and a unit commissioner, or two summer camp staff members, then it's a council issue.

 

While discreetly talking to folks is a good idea, as mentioned already it may not work. In the two situations at summer camp that I've seen arise and have used this apporach with, one person denied everything, one person said it's none of my business, and the second couple didn't care who knew. With that couple the camp director was useless to stop the situation. Only the medic's commanding officer, who made a surprise visit to discuss the situation with her, was able to solve the problem.

 

In my opinion, discuss this privately with the CC or COR. It's there place to(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

[packsaddle]

This approach won't exactly bring praise for your tact but if you know absolutely that your accusation is correct (I'm keying on Beavah's advice) you could just accidentally blurt out something incredibly direct and insensitive at a committee meeting. You probably need to have another prospective SM waiting in the wings. Maybe prepared to move on, yourself.

 

If you are familiar with the character portrayed by 'House' on television, think in terms of how 'House' would handle the situation. I rather like it. But then, I am never, ever going to be a diplomat.

[DeanRx]

1) As long as its not happening at scout functions or in front of the scouts in other public arena(s) - then its none of your business, or anyone else's in the Troop for that matter.

 

If an adult leader in BSA gets arrested for securities fraud (not during a scout funciton), do they get removed from the program? What if the securities fraud involved one or more of the parent(s) of other scouts in the program? That's basically what you're asking...

 

The quesiton is, "If an adult leader (SM or otherwise) is involved in an immoral act with another adult leader outside of BSA events, should that person be kicked out of scouting?"

 

Some will argue - yes, others will say - no.

 

Unless you have video taped evidence (at which point I don't want to know how you got it....) - then stay out of it. The first ex-wife is NOT a valid reference. You are getting one side of the story from an individual that obviously has been scorned by the accused. That is a recipe for gossip if I've ever seen one.

 

2) You can only control YOURSELF and YOUR FAMILY in this situation. So, if the "alledged" act(s) are offensive to you. By all means, you can search for another Troop. That's your right as a concerned parent. You are also within your rights to let the leadership within the Troop you are departing know WHY you are choosing to leave. At that point, if it really is an issue, they will either choose to address it - or they will watch their unit crumble around them.

 

As a newly minted Cubmaster, I am AMAZED at how many people crawl out of the woodwork with "issues" they despreately need me or the CC to address. In reality, the majority of these issues are personality conflicts between one, two, or three adults within the organization. If they can't deal with it on their own, they can either be civil to each other while at unit functions, or they can leave the unit. I have boys in the unit to worry about (as does your son's SM and CC). It is NOT the unit leadership's job to take on interpersonal squables of the non-leader adults within the unit.

 

As an aside - eisely wrote:

 

"The only rule that I can think about that might apply regards the sleeping arrangements on outings. Adults of the opposite sex cannot share a tent on an outing"

 

Not entirely true. UNMARRIED adults of the opposite sex cannot share a tent on an outing. If its a family campout and they are married (to each other of course) - they certainly can share a tent.

 

The funny part about this is... if the two adult leaders (not married to each other) go off and have sex in the woods, but sleep in seperate quarters, then they haven't broken this BSA policy. Yet, the same organization that is so opposed to homosexuality will allow non-married adult leaders (over 21) of the same gender to share sleeping quarters.

 

Things that make you go.... Hmmmmmmm ?

[Gold Winger]

"If an adult leader in BSA gets arrested for securities fraud (not during a scout funciton), do they get removed from the program?"

 

More than likely.

[Rythos]

But one must consider that there is a big difference between arrested and rumors flying around.

 

Ry(This message has been edited by rythos)