troop committee changes

[lynn07]

Do troop committee's hold an election every year and get to vote for the person that they feel would be the best for the position? It is a secret ballot of show of hands? How many votes does it take to be elected? Who counts the votes? We have a troop that wants positions changed as the troop.

 

 

[Bob White]

Here is how it designed to be done acccording to the scouting program and supported in the training and resources of the BSA program.

 

The Committee Chair is selected by the Institutional Head and/or the Charter Organization Representative.

 

The Committee Chair then selects the committee members with the membership also approved by the Charter organization Representatibve or the Institutional head. The Committee Chair assigns the committee positions based on the skills and resources of the individual.

 

The committee members carry out the work assigned to them by the committee chair and report their progress at the Monthly Committee Meetings.

 

there are no elections. the Committee chair serves at the behest of the charter organization representative and the Institutional Head.

 

The Committee members serve at the behest of the Committee Chair and the Charter organizational head.

 

You can learn more about Troop Committee Operations in the Troop Committee Guide or from the Troop Committee Challenge Training now on-lion on the BSA on-line learning Center.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Beavah]

Yah, BobWhite describes one way an organization may set up a troop committee, eh? But a number of other setups are possible which are also supported by da BSA program, eh?

 

The real answer to your question might be "What do your bylaws say?" or perhaps "What has the method been in the past?" or "What is typically done in other programs of your Chartered Organization?" or finally "How does your COR want to handle it?"

 

Yah, I agree with BobWhite, though, in that I'd generally encourage yeh to avoid a lot of voting, eh? Except when it's a vote that's simply an affirmation, in a small volunteer organization like a troop voting is likely to cause a lot of pain and hard feelings between people who need to be able to work together goin' forward. You votin' for someone is really tellin' someone else yeh don't think they're any good or will be any good at a task they want, eh?

 

I also wouldn't recommend the "controlling CC" thing either, though, eh? That can cause a lot of problems too. But despite my advice, both the controllin' CC and open voting happen out there in some units with success, and in ways perfectly consistent with da BSA program.

 

So big picture, yeh need to inquire how things are done in your troop. We can't really answer your question here. But if you're a CC/COR or lead committee member for a new unit or one that's rebuildin', come back with questions and we can all give yeh suggestions on how yeh might want to set things up for the future.

 

Beavah

 

[Bob White]

Lynn here is why the The BSA does not sggest, support, or even suggest that the re be voting to determine committee assignmements or committee leadership.

 

The unit belongs to the Charter organization. The Charter organization contracts with the BSA to form a partnership to use the BSA program to enhance and carry out the goals of the charter organization in its service to youth and the community. For that reason it is important for the success of that partnership that the unit be responsible to the Charter organization. That responsibility is insured by the Institutional Head selecting and approving the Charter Organizational Representative and the Committee Chairman. They are the representatives of the Charter organization and are the administrators of Scouting for the Charter organization. The Charter rep should be a member of the board of the Charter organization.

 

It is when units lose this important connection that the relationship between the unit and the Charter organization begins to decay. Which ultimately will harm the health of the unit.

 

As for the committee members, what they do is not a popularity contest. They should be selected based on their skills and resources for the specific job. That is the responsibility of the Committee Chair to make that decision, since it is his or her team to lead. Just as the president selects his own Cabinet , the Committee Chair selects their own committee.

 

Do some charter organizations do it differently, yes, but that does not mean they do it better or correctly. There are specific benefits to the health of the unit to keeping these posts controlled by the charter organization. Charter organizations will take better care of "their" units then they will of units that just meet "there".

 

Are there other ways as Beavah suggests, perhaps, but what he doesn't mention is that none of the other ways are found anywhere in the official program of the BSA, and that is by design not by coincidence.

 

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, Lynn07, BobWhite is correct in his description of the Charterin' relationship of the BSA, eh? Every scout unit is owned and operated by a community organization of some kind, and maintainin' that sound relationship is important.

 

That's why there are so many different ways for a committee to be set up, eh? Each scouting unit must run under the rules and regulations of both the chartered partner and the BSA, with the first bein' the most important because they are actually the owner of the unit. In some chartered partners, adult leaders and committee members are "called" by their pastors. No votes, no selection by da committee chair, just assignment by the IH. In some chartered partners, a committee is structured according to a set of bylaws like a self-perpetuating board of directors. They may vote to recommend a CC and SM. In still other chartered partners, there may be nominatin' committees, selection by a board of elders, or even selection by lot like the early apostles, eh?

 

That is one of da strengths of the BSA program, eh? It can be used and adapted by different community organizations with different business models and ways of thinkin' about youth service or governance. That's why the BSA does not specify how these things are to be done in any specific instance.

 

Sometimes you'll run into scouters who don't really understand the program who believe that because there's a signature line for da Committee Chair on leader application forms, the CC can and should be able to determine how an entire committee is staffed and operates. But that would not be the BSA program, eh? That kind of authority in BSA units belongs solely to da IH/COR as unit owners (and practically speakin', sometimes not even to them if, for example, authority in the community organization is vested differently). Settin' up a CC in that way IMO often leads to all kinds of problems for units, which is why the BSA doesn't teach that.

 

Practically speakin', Lynn07, yeh need to go talk to an "old hand" in your unit to learn how you unit operates. Like BobWhite, I generally would not recommend contentious votin' for positions either unless there's a long tradition of that and a lot of goodwill between folks. Scout units run best when fairly like-minded and caring adults work primarily by discussion and consensus in support of da SM. I reckon that's what you should strive for on your committee.

 

Beavah

 

[John-in-KC]

Lynn07,

 

What Beavah said:

 

Practically speakin', Lynn07, yeh need to go talk to an "old hand" in your unit to learn how you unit operates. Like BobWhite, I generally would not recommend contentious votin' for positions either unless there's a long tradition of that and a lot of goodwill between folks. Scout units run best when fairly like-minded and caring adults work primarily by discussion and consensus in support of da SM. I reckon that's what you should strive for on your committee."

 

It bears repeating

[NeilLup]

Hello Lynn,

 

Your Commissioner's staff should be able to help you. If you have a good Unit Commissioner, contact him or her. Otherwise, contact your Asst. District Commissioner or District Commissioner. They will give you support on the local level.

[acco40]

The BSA is somewhat confusing in its literature. Some references don't even use the term "voting" - as a decision making process but then some state that the Scoutmaster "gets no vote" wrt committee decisions.

 

I agree with BW on what the BSA process states but in reality, what rarely happens is that Committee Chair is selected by the Institutional Head and/or the Charter Organization Representative. What usually happens in that the adult members choose a CC (some by voting, some by consensus, some by other means) and then the unit presents that choice to the COR/IH who then approves (or in rare cases disapproves).

 

Regardless, the CC choice is critical.

 

[lynn07]

Thank you all for your response. The Unit Commissioner commissioner has been in contact with us and the District Commissioner and has asked for clarification. This question has come up because the majority of the unit and committee want a new cc that will be more effective and be a facilator not a dictator and keep the boys troop alive. the current cc does not have a child in the program now, his son is now away at college and it is time for him to move on as well and let a person become involved that has a vested interest. It appears a talk with the COH or COR will be needed to get changes made.

 

thoughts on this?

[FScouter]

Some of the best adult leaders are those WITHOUT a boy in the troop. They don't have a "vested interest" to color their judgment. If the CC is ineffective, replace him on that basis, not based on the status of his son.

[croushorn]

lynn I think you are approaching this correctly. Apparently some in your unit has decided a change is needed, so someone has to step up and tell this sitting CC. Make the COR that guy and it will go a lot more smoothly. You all need to work together on a routine basis, the conflict that may arise from asking someone to step aside may go bad and embarrass him. Hopefully he wont take offense and sticks around to contribute without malice. Like acc says, most COs just wants things to smoothly and quietly and arent usually interested in the inner politics of the Scout unit. If possible, I would try and do this at your unit's recharter time, it will allow a greater transition, and the outgoing to save face by exiting gracefully.

[John-in-KC]

Methinks there is some need for clear, FRIENDLY, COURTEOUS, and KIND cross-communication. Your UC and COR should be in on the communication to be sure that all are playing on a level field.

 

Unit committees should operate by consensus, but when a support side decision needs to be made, the buck stops with the CC. I hope and trust the CC and the SM are in regular cross-communication with each other.

 

I can see the worst of all possible worlds for quite a few parents if this issue gets pushed to the extreme: The COR elects to support the CC, and the people who have invested in enforced change are left holding the bag.

[Bob White]

The vested interest that a committee chair or charter organization representative brings to a scout unit is not through having a son in the unit but by wanting to serve the charter organzation and their committment to youth through the use of a quality scouting program.

 

Parents need to understand that the program does not belong to them but is an activity made possible through a joint partnership between the charter organization and the BSA.

 

Just as the the choir director works for the church and not for the parents of the choir members.

 

I am not sure that the word Consensus or even the suggestion of consensus is a part of the program for BSA unit operations as far as the committee is concerned. The training and the resources say that the committee chair gives assignements to the appropritae committee members and they carry them out and reports their progress at the monthly committee meeting.

 

It is not th ecommittees role to determine the direction of the unit's program. The Charter organziation Rep, the committee chair, and the unit leader determine that.

 

Then the committee chair leads the actions of the committee and the Unit Leader leads the actions of the program leaders.

 

This is not scouting by consensus. This is supposed to be trained leaders leading a real scouting program.

 

Why would you select someone to be the treasurer based on their bookeeping skills and then have them tell you what they think the advancement chair should do...or visa versa. That is not how the program is designed or taught, or supported.

 

This is not the PTO, Scouting has its own structure that is unique to most all other organizations, and that is why it works so well...WHEN ITS FOLLOWED.

 

Lynn I urge you to consider, if you want a successful scouting program, to learn how the program is designed to work and not by what others offer as their personal variation or opinion.

 

Don't do what I tell you, or what anyone else tells you. Do what the Scouting Program tells you. It's their program, they have developed a plan that works from 100 years of experience. No one individuasl on this or any other forum knows the program as well as the BSA does Thats why they have all these resources to help you.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[CalicoPenn]

The Great and Powerful Oz has Spoken - let's have no more of this nonsense of real life intruding on what BSA books say the program should be.

 

Because those of us grounded in reality know that if parents present a unified consensus to the CO, changes will be made, regardless of what the books say about the BSA program. Those of us grounded in reality know that if an entire committee tells the CO it's time for a new CC, or the unit will be decimated by people leaving, the CO is likely to make the change, regardless of what the books say about the BSA program. Those of us grounded in reality know that in most cases, if a committee votes in a new CC, or fires a Scoutmaster, without approval from the CO, that the decision of the committee is likely to be fully accepted by the CO because the CO just doesn't really care what happens internally to the unit, regardless of what the books say about the BSA program.

 

But never mind reality - the Great and Powerful Oz has spoken, and thus it shall be.

[Bob White]

"Those of us grounded in reality know that if an entire committee tells the CO it's time for a new CC, or the unit will be decimated by people leaving, the CO is likely to make the change, regardless of what the books say about the BSA program. "

 

What your story doesn't tell is whether or not the rst of the committee is right or not.

 

What you saying is that the IH needs to bow to per pressure without establishing if the peers are right or wrong.

 

Since the unit does not belong to the commmittee but to the Charter organization which is represented by the IH, CR, and CC, what path the Co follows is their choice.

 

Their responsibility ois not to do what the committee wants but to follow the Scouting program, its ppoliciies, procedures and methods.

 

The "real world" is what you make it. You can choose to follow the BSa programs or choose not to. But expect to havemore problems and bigger pp[roblems when you choose to not follow the program. And don't expect those who do follow the program to have a lot of pity for those probelms when you made the choice to not follow the program.

 

There is no Wizard of Scouting, but if you want to have a quality scouting program it just takes a little courage to do what's right, the heart to want to do the right thing, and the brains to learn how.