Dump the bum!

[Stosh]

What's with all these requests on the forum seeking advice to kick out some vounteer, SM, MC, DL, parent, or scout? Whatever happened to negotiations, conflict resolution, cooperation, and some of those things we are supposed to be instilling in our scouts? I look back on some of these posts (and I'm as guilty as the next guy) and see that about 80% (approximately of course, or someone's going to wonder where I got the numbers from) of them are bummed out about something someone did and instead of working a little teamwork, it's right straight to "how do we get rid of them?"

 

What is the example we are setting for our scouts?

 

Stosh

[Trevorum]

It's an election year ... Dump the Bum!

[John-in-KC]

Stosh,

 

I think most of the regulars here are coming around to the Beavah "let's ask some questions and see what's really going on" school of internet Scouting support.

 

Our challenge is too many new arrivals show up on our doorsteps with little training and less patience. They think the program should look like X, when the literature says ABC.

 

Much as BW is the penultimate pedant, his mantra of "take more training" is useful and reliable.

 

As for me, when I see most of these "how do I...?" questions, my now stock response is sit down and have a quiet conversation with him. Won't always work, but it's always worth the effot.

[Gold Winger]

"Much as BW is the penultimate pedant, his mantra of "take more training" is useful and reliable"

 

BeeDub is the next to last pedant?

[FireKat]

Some come when  negotiations have failed. Dealing with some people is like talking to a brick wall. They will not budge and the poster is looking for a civilized way of going to the next step. They hope someone has been there and done that and might give some ideas what might work and what has backfired. It is easier than groping in the dark.

Some come to read the old 'war stories'; to get laughs, ideas, information, and news. Some of us come for all the reasons.

Sometimes it is nice to know you are not alone in what you are going through.

Some come to help others - isn't that what scouting is all about?

[Stosh]

I agree that there are a variety of different reasons why people come to the forum, but I guess I was just surprised why there seems to be so many of them the result of problems. Why is it that negotiations have broken down, CC's,UC's, DE's and SE's haven't been able to resolve the problems? Units are being split, SM's tossed out, CC's and SM having fights, CM and DL having fights, etc. etc. etc. Is it the times we live in? I don't remember these issues 15 years ago. And what surprises me is that I don't seem to have the problems that others have even though I know my boys are no better or worse than anyone else's boys.

 

Stosh

[Lisabob]

My take is that these sorts of problems probably always existed and it is just that internet forums like this one bring people's experiences together. If you are in a solid, functional unit for a long time then you may be blissfully unaware of the types of problems that other units around the corner (or across the country) have.

 

Then too, I think a lot of young-ish adults in this country have grown up with little or no experience working in voluntary organizations. Their parents didn't join, or joined but didn't really participate much, and now they don't know how to be productive group members either. The first volunteer experience a lot of young parents have is when they sign up their graduating kindergartener for Tiger cubs. They expect volunteer orgs like scouts to provide the same type or level of "customer service" that they get when they enroll their kid in a paid program where the staff is required to cater to their every demand or else lose their job. They don't understand that in scouting, practically all of us are volunteers with competing demands on our time too, and that to make it work, everybody needs to pitch in, be flexible, and maintain a sense of humor. So it is also a learning experience for many adults.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Stosh,

 

Part of it is for the unit serving Scouter or parent, too many of them do not know there are volunteers around. Everything above the unit is either "District" or "Council". Chartered Partners can't or won't share their share of the load.

 

As someone said in the Council Relations forum... we have met the enemy and he is us (quoting Walt Kelly and Pogo).

 

His name was Walt Kelly OGE (This message has been edited by a staff member.) (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Eamonn]

I really don't think anyone goes straight to the idea of removing anyone.

At work I see two people who just can't see eye to eye.

Admittedly one tends to be right more often than the other.

I'm not sure what caused the rift.

They both know how to get under each other's skin and push each others buttons.

Each will go out of their way to showcase the other in a bad light.

Much as I hate to admit it, I do see the day in the not so distant future when one of them or maybe both of them will cross the line and could end up in hot water.

Myself and others have tried counseling them. Starting with remarks like "Get over it" and going as far as pointing out the Code of Ethics that State Employees are supposed to adhere too and verbal warnings (The first step in disciplinary action).

While they know what they are both doing is not right and is at times both silly and can be harmful to themselves and the department. They seem unable to stop.

Of course these two really have had little choice, they didn't choose to work with each other and while transferring to another location is a possibility, it would be a real pain.

Most Scout Groups - Units or committees that I have been involved with tend to be made up of people who like each other and people who have knowledge of each other.

I know that I'm not going to join a unit or a committee where the people in that unit or on that committee are people that I'm unable to get along with or work with.

I have sat on committees where there have been some members that maybe aren't my cup of tea. When that happens I'm happy to avoid them as much or as far as is possible. I kinda think if things did become unbearable? I would be the one that would walk away.

 

Very often when someone is not doing what is expected from them it turns out that they are really looking for a way out.

When I first became a District Commissioner, I inherited the staff. The Lady who was Assistant District Commissioner Cub Scouts, was a nice Lady. She had been a Den Mother with my Mother-in-law back in the day. Sadly she just wasn't up to the job. But she still wanted to be around Scouts and Scouting. Her big fear was that if she ever gave up being ADC she would be left with nothing to do and soon forgotten. I found this out by just sitting down and talking with her. I talked with the other members of the Key 3 and we came up with the title of Boy's Life Promoter. She came to Round Tables and a couple of times a year gave a little talk on how great Boy's Life Magazine was, she had a stall at Pow Wows and was very happy with her new role.

 

Of course there are some people who really are in the wrong job and may be unwilling to do the right thing. But after ten years serving as a key 3 member, I found that in most cases (Not all.) Very often it is the people who are trying to remove someone that are the people who are in fact in need of removal.

Eamonn.

[Bob White]

I'll bet that people who want to work it out will post asking how to work it ou, and poeple who just want to know the process will post asking about the process.

 

In much the same way that people who want to learn the program will post asking to learn more about the program. And people who want to share the program will post using the resourcese of the progrom.

 

 

[Eagle732]

Which is worse, those that want to kick out someone or those who want to quit because they don't like what is going?

 

[John-in-KC]

Neither is good. Both are indicators of something not going right in a unit. Cautios probing hopefully gives something closer to the root problem.

[shortridge]

jblake47 wrote: "Units are being split, SM's tossed out, CC's and SM having fights, CM and DL having fights, etc. etc. etc. Is it the times we live in? I don't remember these issues 15 years ago."

 

They've been going on for as long as there have been troops and packs. I can attest to disputes two decades ago.

 

As a Cub Scout, and son of a den leader and pack committee member who was dragged along to many a meeting, I was witness to one such event that rapidly degenerated into yelling and finger-pointing. It was pretty nasty, and really opened my eyes, even as a youngster.

 

My first Boy Scout troop started up because of a disagreement with the existing troop's leaders over the way a youth with health problems was being treated.

 

I'd wager that most such disputes happen at the Cub level, where you have exponentially more parents - and egos - involved, and nearly everyone's new. But that's just my guesstimate.

[Bob White]

There are no new problems in Scouting. The problems that arise in units and councils are exactly the same as ones that have been faced in other using or with different people at other times.

 

many othe the cures have been addressed by the BSa as well adn included in training programs or manuals or topic specific brochures.

 

In the past as in today, the majority of problems come from when people stray from the program, not from when they follow it.

 

 

[Beavah]

 

In the past as in today, the majority of problems come from when people stray from the program, not from when they follow it.

 

Nah, no evidence of that.

 

Close as I can tell, the majority of problems come from the adult egos that shortridge mentions, eh? Whether it's parents wantin' their son to get an award at all costs, or a "my way or the highway" unit leader that thinks he's followin' the program and so can ignore or belittle other viewpoints.

 

My guess, though, is that it's gotten progressively worse over time, eh? Parents seem to be more involved in negative ways, and have more of their egos invested in vicariously livin' their sons' lives. Might be partly because parents in our demographic are havin' fewer kids these days, so they have more time and energy to pour into each one. Self-reliance of the sort that scoutin' tries to teach tends to be an afterthought to some folks.

 

B