Scouting Urban Legends Redux

[Eagle92]

Although it's been a while since I was a Sea Scout and leader, I love discussing the topic because Sea Scoutin has been the red-headed step child for so long that most people, including a few professionals I've run into, always give me the "They still have Sea Scouts?" question, whenever I am out promoting my council's sea base at conclaves. Luckily the national Venturing director is pro Sea Scout and the program is becoming better known. Heck I've even seen Holmes in a Sea Scout uniform.

 

While I do not have the 10th edition manual and may get flamed, I do have the 9th ed. first printing easily available, can't find my 2nd printing one. Anyway on page 3-15 it states the following: "This chapter describes the wearing and insignia placement of the traditional uniform. Ships can adapt these recommedndations to the uniform they have selected." And page 3-18 is entitled "Recommended Placement of Sea Explorer Insignia" and it shows placement for temporary insignia. Page 3-19 then gives a written description of what goes where and has an asterick on "Right Pocket*" with a foot note stating "*Or approximate location if jumper does not have right pocket." So if a ship allows its members who wear the traditional uniform, then what is wrong with that as it is allowed?

 

While the crackerjacks do look good, they are impractical at times. I disliked my first ship's uniform of blue jeans and blue polo with First Class Anchor, Ship Number, and CO, or a blue hooded sweatshirt with the above information. When I got Shanghied into being the skipper of the council's seabase ship, I am glad that the members decided on uniform similar to the Summer whites on page 3-16 of the manual. Only difference is that we wore a navy belt or leather belt and navy shorts/ pants. Since the OA officers were the ones that pushed the seabase program, and all members of the ship were Vigil members, it was a no brainer to allow the OA flaps on the uniform.

 

 

 

[Bob White]

Old Handbook, outdated information, the rules have changed.

[Kahuna]

There are even differences in the 10th. The "b" edition has been superseded by the "c" edition.

 

We had a wardroom meeting yesterday and every uniformed Sea Scouter there was out of uniform, including me (I wear white shorts). Two were wearing chambray dungaree uniforms and one was wearing the khaki work uniform with the wrong insignia. They're all doing a good job, though and the one bos'n who was there was in sharp white crackerjacks.

 

The big problem is the National Sea Scout Committee keeps changing everything for what reason I'm not sure. Anyway, we will have a new National Commodore and presumably a new committee in October, so we'll see what happens.

[Bob White]

"The big problem is the National Sea Scout Committee keeps changing everything for what reason I'm not sure."

 

They keep changing EVERYTHING? That would have to be a lot of stuff to change.

 

I would bet that alot of people woulkd find it hard to beieve that everything has changed. Could you give us an example Kahuna, because I have only done this for a few years and I am unaware of anything changing in that perios of time , let alone EVERYTHING changing.

 

How about identifying just 12 things that have changed in the last 4 years.

 

Thanks

BW

[Kahuna]

You know, Bob White, you are a lot of fun to be on a forum with. Probably less so to work in a council with. No insult intended.

 

When I say the NSSC keeps changing everything, I would have thought it was understood to be one of those exagerations that we sometimes use in conversation.

 

You don't go as far back in Sea Scouting/Sea Exploring as I do, so you haven't had the benefit of watching the evolution take place. When I began, we were Sea Explorers, made our own uniforms with some guidance from national. Now we are Sea Scouts with quite a bit of guidance from national.

 

How about some changes from edition "b" versus edition "c" of the 10th Edition? Remember, I was talking uniforms. There are some other changes to "doctrine."

 

1-Uniforms: no more adult winter working blue uniform - black shirt and black pants - male and female.

 

2- Uniforms: No more youth short sleeve shirt with white bellbottoms.

 

3- Uniforms: Mininal insignia on adult khaki working uniform. No council strips or unit numbers.

 

4- Uniforms: Name tag moved to above Sea Scouts BSA strip. Seabadge insignia moved to above that. (that's two)

 

5- No wearing of OA flaps.

 

9-Introduction of metal adult position insignia as opposed to wearing the silver lapel pins on, eg, the khaki working uniform.

 

10-Universal Sea Scout emblem no longer worn , but specific ship insignia may be worn (optional).

 

11- Limitation to wearing six square knots on SS uniforms.

 

12- Wear of shoulder insignia (the black shoulder boards)for adults.

 

BTW, p 112 of the "c" edition still says that for QM youth wearing adult uniform, no rank insignia is worn of the left pocket. The medal or square knot is worn instea.

 

So, that's actually 13. Sorry, I can't document "everything," but we all have our failings, with one exception.

[Bob White]

So in basically you are saying they changed the uniform about 4 years ago when the current handbook came out?

 

Sorry I had no idea it was "one of those exagerations". I thought you meant that everything had changed. I see now that they made some changes in the uniform.

 

Is this the first time the uniforms changed in Sea Scouting over the last 90 plus years, or had they changed before? Based on a display on unforms I saw once it appears it has changed a few times, not unlike other BSA uniforms...is that correct?

[Kahuna]

BW, it's fun, as I said, but it's not that much fun.

[emb021]

"Is this the first time the uniforms changed in Sea Scouting over the last 90 plus years, or had they changed before? Based on a display on unforms I saw once it appears it has changed a few times, not unlike other BSA uniforms...is that correct?"

 

The Sea Scout uniforms have changed over the years, but the recent changed is the first in several years, and in some cases are a bit radical.

 

From what I have been able to piece together (all covered at my website):

 

1912-17: Honestly don't know what the Sea Scout uniform was during this period.

 

1917-24: Kimo Wilder period. Sea Scouts work khaki crackerjacks with navy blue pocket flaps and navy blue collar flaps (no idea what the correct term for this is). Adults seem to wear navy yachtsman uniforms, but many be incorrect. Uncertain of insignia or its placement. Have some scans, but unclear of what is what.

 

1924-30s. Commander Keane revamped uniforms, basing it on naval uniforms. Youth wore crackerjacks, adults wore officer uniforms. Some insignia placement DOESN'T match BSA placement (office patches on right sleeve, rank on sleeves, etc). Adults had strips, which were confusing with navy personnel.

 

1940s or so. New adult office patches put in place around 1942. Insignia placement also changes to bring placement in line with rest of BSA.

 

(if you compare the Sea Scout manuals of the 30s and 40s, you'll see the changes I speak of. I need to scan and add to my website).

 

For this time forward, the Sea Scout/Sea Explorer uniform has been about the same. In the 70s or so, they did allow for youth to wear white uniforms like the adults. More options were available for uniforms.

 

HOWEVER, since 1998, the National Sea Scout Committee has made some radical changes. They dropped stuff that's been in place since the days of Keane, dropped certain uniform options (no youth wearing white uniforms like the adults, no black uniforms for adults), made additions like the black epaulet covers and medal office pins, etc. While I don't have a problem with some of the additions, I DO have a problem with some of things they've dropped.

 

[John-in-KC]

We interrupt this discussion of Sea Scout uniforms with a new and confirmed Urban Legend. Thanks to BigEagle for finding it for us. Thanks to him also for closing his loop with his DE and confirming his Council says this is hokey as well:

 

I was told yesterday by our brother pack's cubmaster that a Webelos den can only go camping with a troop one time and for the express purpose of fulfilling the requirement to participate with a troop.

 

We now return you to the discussion of Sea Scouting uniforms...

[FScouter]

More facts...

[sailingpj]

emb021 said "not to mention all the First Class Anchors on the collar and hat"

 

emb021, actually you are not supposed to have any insignia on the white hat at all.

 

I quote from page 107, last paragraph of the Sea Scout Manual:

 

"Navy-style white enlisted cover (hat)(no insignia on cover and identical cover for male and female);"

 

On the next page, second paragraph it states:

 

"The cover is white (no insignia) and the same as for the white uniform."(This message has been edited by sailingpj)

[Eagle92]

Sail,

When did they take the 'bugs" off the dixie cups?

[emb021]

"emb021 said "not to mention all the First Class Anchors on the collar and hat"

 

"emb021, actually you are not supposed to have any insignia on the white hat at all. "

 

sailingpj- its a bit confusing to quote something posted over 2 years ago.

 

Yes, the SSM says the 'dixie cup' hat is to have no insignia. Yet another area that the current leadership has changed, as from the early days of Sea Scouting, you must certainly wore the small sea scout insignia (aka the 'bug') on the front of the cap. Again, to avoid confusion with navy personnel. Many traditional sea scout leaders still put the patch there...

 

 

[sailingpj]

I took that quote from the 2004 printing of the manual.