Scouting Urban Legends Redux

[Bob White]

Thanks for the ditty but this is still about how misinformation weeds it way into appearing as the truth. Certainly when those responsible for training (as in the case OGE shared and in the examples of the Seabadge trainers) teach what they "feel" the program should be rather than what the rogram is, it adds to the problem of urban legends being born and being spread.

 

 

OGE is right that the learners come to training with a high level of trust that what they see and learn will be correct. When trainers do not teach what is in the syllabus and handbooks but instead teach what they "feel" is the way to do it then that trust is betrayed.

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

And on THAT, you, I and Lisa would violently agree.

 

Months ago in your "What would you change?" thread, I fairly fell on my sword for competent trainers ... folks who knew their material, and who knew instructional technique.

 

I still cite a Commissioner College I attended. A Scouter who held her Doctor of Commissioner Service claimed all Venturers inherently require a BSA Class 3 physical annually. This was in class mind you.

 

I also cite the "I just got handed this material, let's muddle through together" which has happened in my Scouting career as a learner.

 

Passing the baloney is a systemic issue, imo and sadly! Voluntary compliance goes so far and no farther. The National Council needs to decide at what point it invests resources in mandatory compliance evaluation of local Councils and volunteer run training operations. Basic? Advanced? Supplemental as in Commish College?

 

I've stated my opinions on this elsewhere, and will not re-engage here.

 

Good Day.

[evmori]

Thanks for the ditty but this is still about how misinformation weeds it way into appearing as the truth.

 

Misinformation also comes from how one interprets what one reads in the BSA manuals. Everything is not black & white & there are many gray areas that require interpretation.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[emb021]

"What "naval issue"? As far keeping the uniform from looking like a Navy uniform, it would seem to me that the "Sea Scouts BSA" strip alone takes care of that, not to mention all the First Class Anchors on the collar and hat, and the ship patch on the sleeve."

 

Actually, you are supposed to do more then that to avoid the issue.

 

* Navy crackerjacks you remove the middle strip from the sleeves and collar flap, and cover up the stars on the flap with the small sea scout 'bugs'.

 

* White crackerjacks you cover up the stars on the flap with the small sea scout 'bugs'.

 

* adult officer patches were changed from the sea scout emblem with strips to the current stars with the emblem with rope oval or diamond.

 

* campaign ribbons are not allowed. So Sea Scouts aren't to wear the bronze or gold award ribbons.

 

I'll have to check my SSM, but am fairly certain the Council strip is NOT forbidden on the white uniform.

 

[Bob White]

Then you agree there are a number of ways that the Sea Scout uniform differeentiates itself from a naval uniform without the need to wear improper elements such as knots, OA devices, and temporary patches that are specifically prohibited.

 

I did not say that the council strip was forbidden. I said that the Handbook's uniform instructions from the National committee that determines the correct uniform only places it on some uniform pieces. The adult khaki work uniform is NOT one of the pieces that the council strip is designated to go onto. I did not make the rules, I simple compared what you said you do compared to what the Sea Scout program said is correct.

 

You tell us which you feels promotes more urban legends, what the current handbooks says, or what leaders do because they "feel" they are right?

 

 

[Bob White]

Lisabob wrote as an urban legend.."*Boys who earned AoL don't have to do the Scout requirements when they join Boy Scouts"

 

That is not an urban legend. According to the Scoutmaster handbook that is true.

[GKlose]

BW, it's also in the Scout Handbook (stating, "with approval of your Scoutmaster").

[Eamonn]

Oh Dear!!

Something else I'm guilty of.

I do have a Council strip on my Working Uniform!!

Must admit to not liking it very much.

Would sooner wear an ordinary everyday Field Uniform Shirt.

I know the Wood Badge bead ruling, do follow it but think it's just silly.

Eamonn

[Lisabob]

How interesting, we learn new things all the time (at least, I hope). BW, to be sure I have this right because I still have not had the chance to buy a copy of the SM handbook, though I promise to do so before the end of the month: The SM hand book says that boys who have AoL may automatically be given the Scout badge without having to do those requirements?

 

Does it say it "can" happen? Or that it "must" happen?

 

I'm not questioning you - if you say the book explicitly allows that, I have no reason to believe you're making it up - I'm just curious is all.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

THIS JUST IN

 

Posted yesterday by jmwalston:

 

"I thought Whittlin' Chip taught proper use and safety of a pocket knife. Totin' Chip taught proper use and safety of a bow saw, hatchet, and ax. In the Troop I work with, Scouts must have Whittlin' Chip to use or carry a pocket knife on outings."

 

Refutation:

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/advancementandawards/meritbadges/totin.aspx

 

Key sentences from the website:

2 Demonstrate proper handling, care, and use of the pocket knife, ax, and saw.

3 Use knife, ax, and saw as tools, not playthings.

 

[gwd-scouter]

Just heard this one: Boy Scouts cannot carry and use zippo lighters.

[jmwalston]

"THIS JUST IN

 

Posted yesterday by jmwalston:

 

"I thought Whittlin' Chip taught proper use and safety of a pocket knife. Totin' Chip taught proper use and safety of a bow saw, hatchet, and ax. In the Troop I work with, Scouts must have Whittlin' Chip to use or carry a pocket knife on outings."

 

Refutation:

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/advancementandawards/meritbadges/totin.aspx

 

Key sentences from the website:

2 Demonstrate proper handling, care, and use of the pocket knife, ax, and saw.

3 Use knife, ax, and saw as tools, not playthings."

 

John,

 

1. For the record, I had posted it today.

2. There is no refutation in the sense you state. http://scoutleaderawards.com/advance/cubscout/whittlingchip.asp

3. Totin' Chip is about woodtools, to include the pocket knife.

4. There is no urban legend here, this is this particular Troop's policy. Not what they heard.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

"Boy Scouts cannot carry and use zippo lighters. "

 

The only ones which are prohibited are the left handed version of zippos.

 

 

 

[Bob White]

The passage I was thinking of is actually in the Boys Scout Handbook, and it does say that with the permission of the Scoutmaster a Boy with Arrow of Light can be given the Scout Badge.

 

the Scoutmaster Handbook recommends the Scoutmaster have a scoutmaster conference with a scout who has the AOL as soon as possible, even before the scout attends his first meeting, so that he can receive his Scout Badge the first night.

 

The Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual says that the Webelos Badge and the AOL contain all the requirements for earning the Scout Badge including the Scoutmasters conference.

 

So there is a lot of support that a Cub with the AOL upon registering with a troop has met all the joining requirements and has earned the Scout Badge.

 

 

Remember this is not a rank, this is a symbol of joing the Boy Scouts.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[gwd-scouter]

The Webelos Badge and AOL may have the same requirements as the Scout Badge, except for requirement #9 - completing the pamphlet exercises. Which brings me to a question - are the pamphlet exercises the same in Boy Scout and Cub Scout Handbooks?