Scouting Urban Legends Redux

[emb021]

" "The current SSM is pretty clear on what are the uniform options for youth and adults, males and females." It is? Must be a misprint. It will be corrected soon. And then we still have the option to modify our uniforms and many units seem to do so."

 

Yes. The SSM is pretty clear with illustrations of the proper uniforms for youth (male & female) and adults (male and female), and further give clear directions on what does (and does not) go on what uniform in what location.

 

There are certain items that are only to be worn on certain uniforms. AND certain items that are worn in different locations on different uniforms.

 

While I have my issues with some of this, its pretty clear. More so then in the Insignia Guide.

 

"And then we still have the option to modify our uniforms and many units seem to do so."

 

Correct. What is proscribed in the SSM is the 'national sea scout uniform' which is MANDATED at any National sea scout event (like the Koch Cup and the Sea Scout exhibit at National Jamboree, etc), and MAYBE mandated at some regional events. No one is going after ships from not ridgidly following what's in the SSM, BUT if you attend certain events you WILL be told you MUST have the 'national uniform'. And should be prepared for the consequences if you don't...

 

"At the Seabadge training I attended most the staff wore incorrect uniforms treating the Sea Scout Adult Work Uniform (Khaki) shirt as a Boy Scout Uniform shirt hanging all kinds of things on it that did not belong on a Sea Scout Uniform."

 

I can do you one better. We have an old Sea Scouter in my area who wears the Boy Scout Uniform shirt as if it was the Sea Scout Adult Working Uniform (Khaki). He replaced the shirt strip, but the empty epaulets just look sooo wrong. My Dickies tan shirt looks so much better...

 

(and am curious as to what these things they are hanging off the uniform are. I wear the OA flap on my sea scout uniform [others do as well], the world crest [ditto] and powder horn badge, but that's it for non-Sea Scout stuff. I do so partially to ensure the uniform looks less navy. But I won't wear my beads. Plus I feel the World Crest belongs on the Sea scout uniform.)

 

 

[evmori]

One person proclaims it as fact and other blindly follow.

 

A true & very accurate statement!

[Beavah]

if you attend certain events you WILL be told you MUST have the 'national uniform'. And should be prepared for the consequences if you don't...

 

 

Yah, 3 months in da brig for you, lad!

 

Or do yeh Sea Scouting folks still honor long-time traditions like flogging 'round the fleet?

 

Beavah

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Ed, a point I was trying to make is that just because somebody takes training and beleives the trainer doesnt mean they are blindly following. I guess I take "blindly following" as a negative phrase. When I was in school, I blindly followed the teacher who said 1+1=2, and 2+2=4. I blindly followed because I didnt know enough to question the teacher.

 

I guess the best method is to take everything presented at a training course as hear say and then check it with available resources to verify its validity. Of course, if you had the references and time to do that, why would you go to training courses in the first place?

[Bob White]

If you follow the uniform regulations found in the Sea Scout manual you will notice that

Not only are the Wood Badge beads not worn, neither are OA devices or patches on any official Sea Scout Uniforms, They can however be worn on the Venturing Uniform and as a Sea Scout that is an optional unioform to wear.

 

There are no temporary patches, no unit numbers, no council strip, no beads, no OA flaps or devices, on the work uniform. The Sea Scout manual is specific about this.

 

At the Seabadge I attended faculty wore Sea Scout khakis with OA strips, temporary patches, knots, Council Strips, unit numbers etc etc.

It was disappointing. It speaks to the credibility and knowledge of the trainer and what it says is not good.

 

OGE

BSA training is designed to not just share the information but to also pair it with the resources material that the information is from.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Gold Winger]

"What is proscribed in the SSM is the 'national sea scout uniform' which is MANDATED at any National sea scout event (like the Koch Cup and the Sea Scout exhibit at National Jamboree, etc), and MAYBE mandated at some regional events. "

 

Typical BSA, first they denounce the uniform and then they insist that you wear it. Does the confusion ever end.

[Bob White]

Denounced it? When did the BSA denounce it?

 

Here is what the Sea Scout Manual says on the uniform.

 

"the National Sea scout Committee adopted the uniforms in this manual as the only official Sea Scout uniform."

 

 

 

 

[SWScouter]

"But has anyone heard anything about a new National Sea Scout Commodore?"

 

Anybody else misread that as Sea Scout Commode?

 

SWScouter

[Kahuna]

Beavah writes: Or do yeh Sea Scouting folks still honor long-time traditions like flogging 'round the fleet?

 

No, but an occasional keelhauling keeps the morale up.

[Kahuna]

Eamonn writes: But has anyone heard anything about a new National Sea Scout Commodore?

 

Ssssssssssssssh! We aren't supposed to talk about it. I don't know why but I raised the question on the Sea Scout listserv and the discussion was summarily closed by Bruce Chr. Johnson, listowner. There is something going on.

 

Yes. There is a new Commodore to be installed, it was announced at the National Meeting but nobbody will talk abuot it. One of those mysteries of the National Sea Scout Committee that will be solved when the autobiographies are written.

[emb021]

"There are no temporary patches, no unit numbers, no council strip, no beads, no OA flaps or devices, on the work uniform. The Sea Scout manual is specific about this.

 

At the Seabadge I attended faculty wore Sea Scout khakis with OA strips, temporary patches, knots, Council Strips, unit numbers etc etc.

It was disappointing. It speaks to the credibility and knowledge of the trainer and what it says is not good. "

 

Actually, I have a different take on this.

 

Part of this is based on the fact that the current edition of SSM makes some changes to the Sea Scout uniform that have been in place since the 1940s if not back to the 1920s. Further, while the Sea Scout uniform is based on naval uniforms, certain things were done to the uniform (removal of certain items, placement of certain items) to help ensure the uniform is NOT mistaken for naval uniforms.

 

* temporary patches. Uh, I see many sea scouts and leaders wear them, including national level people. I see no issue with them, as it helps to avoid being to naval.

 

* no unit numbers. This is a very recent change, and one which I (and many other leaders) disagree with. They've been part of the sea scout uniform and should be restored. Also helps to avoid the 'naval issue'.

 

* no council strip. I don't believe those are forbidden on any sea scout uniform.

 

* no beads. I don't wear them on my sea scout uniform, haven't met any sea scout leader who did.

 

* no flaps. I wear them and know others (include a regional commodore) that does. Again, helps to avoid the 'naval issue'.

 

* knots. I don't agree with the prohibition on wearing them on the work (khaki/tan) uniform. I know many who wear them. Officers wear their ribbons on the tan uniform, so why can we wear our knots?

 

 

Bottom line, I really don't agree with the attitude that the adult work (tan/khaki) uniform is to be fairly stripped of items. It looks just too naval, and feel that's a mistake.

 

So on mine I wear:

* collar pins (2 star squadron ones from Ship's Store) on collar

* american flag & sea scout emblem on navy on right sleeve

* council strip & squadron committee office patch on navy on left sleeve.

* sea badge pin, name tag, OA flap, and temporary patch around right pocket area (only wear temporary patches with loops, never sew anything down), along with sea scout strip on tan.

* world crest, tan-backed knots (only have 4), and powder horn dangle around left pocket.

 

I do wear tan web belt with sea scout buckle, but I (horrors!!) wear tan shorts. (also wear white shorts when I do whites).

 

As far as I'm concerned, I'm only doing 3 things 'wrong' (world crest, powder horn, and oa flap). Since I see other sea scout leaders from many areas wear things similiarly, and who I feel have much more experience and knowledge in the program, I think I'm probably in good company. (and frankly I wish the National Sea Scout Committee would restore some things to the uniform!)

 

 

 

[Gold Winger]

BeeDub, please learn to read the words that are printed.

 

 

[Bob White]

I don't mean to disagree with you emb021 but the Sea Scout Manual and the National Committee sure seem to. Since when was the correct uniform based on what individual feels? As far as using other people who wear it wrong as your example is that really the way you want to to measure right from wrong...by what others choose to do rather than what the people charged with making the decision determine the uniform should be? isn't that one way these myths get started.

 

The Council strip is worn on some uniforms just not on the khakis or the adult dress whites according to the Handbook.

 

Not being a uniform policeman, since there aren't any such thing. I am just comparing what you say you do with what the Sea Scout Handbook says the uniform is, and by comparison you have 8 items that do not belong on that particular uniform shirt (11 if you count each knot separately).

 

But the choice is yours, I would hope that as an officer you would want to do things correctly as a way to set the example for others, rather than based on your personal feelings? But it seems that a lot of the creative uniforming I saw came from folks who were more into the customs and courtesies of the Boy Scout program than those of the naval heritage that the Sea Scouts were based on.

 

What "naval issue"? As far keeping the uniform from looking like a Navy uniform, it would seem to me that the "Sea Scouts BSA" strip alone takes care of that, not to mention all the First Class Anchors on the collar and hat, and the ship patch on the sleeve.

 

The manual seems very explicit on what goes where on the uniform, I guess I just don't understantd the choice to ignore it.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

I wasn't referring to your post OGE. That was from one of Bob White's posts.

[John-in-KC]

Well, since this has become the Sea Scout thread...

 

Shipmates, stand together

Don't give up the ship

Fair or stormy weather

We won't give up

We won't give up the ship

 

Friends and pals forever

It's a long, long trip

If you have to take a lickin'

Carry on and quit your kickin'

Don't give up the ship