Scouting Urban Legends Redux

[Bob White]

I don't think that is the problem OGE. It seems to me that many posters who ask questions are looking for the answer they want to hear and that is not always the answer that follows the BSA program.

 

The person who tells them what they want becomes the authority on scouting rather than the BSA program being the authority on Scouting.

[NWScouter]

Lisabob, I may be wrong but a knot is worn when you do not wear the badge -- So the AOL as well as the Eagle knot is not worn on a Boy Scout as well as a Cub (in the case of the AOL)uniform because the Arrow of light Award is worn.(This message has been edited by nwscouter)

[jmwalston]

The knots that may be worn on a Scout's uniform are, I believe, the Youth Religious Program knot, the Honor Medal knot, the Medal of Heroism knot, the Medal of Merit knot, the Hornaday Medal knot, the Venturing Silver Award knot, the Venturing Leadership Award knot, and the James E. West Fellowship knot.

 

I am not sure about the Quartermaster knot and the OA Distinguished Service Award knot.

[Eamonn]

I think with so many different groups -Units,Districts, Councils all having rules, guidelines, bylaws, it is understandable that we do have a lot of confusion.

It is kinda sad that a lot of the stuff that really isn't right, isn't true or just isn't there was at one time started by someone who really had the best of intentions.

I at times have a rough time when someone I really like tries to defend something that they know is just plain wrong, just because they don't agree with whatever it was that is right.

 

We as an organization cover a lot of "Stuff".

As we have seen in the forum we can fill page after page with "Uniform Stuff". Eagle Scout rank and Advancement is good for a few hundred pages.

Training and Training's can go a long way to dispel some of the stuff that is not right, but as has been posted, at times Trainers take it upon themselves to add what they think is right or what they think should be there.

Some Trainers feel that they have a duty to go above and beyond the syllabus.

Worse still is that many volunteers rely on DE's to know what is what. Many of these DE's have no idea; having never taken the training's and only ever been exposed to the program for a very short time.

 

I do have to agree that at times trying to find things on the BSA web site is a real challenge. I was trying to find out something the other day and in the end just gave up.

Eamonn.

[Bob White]

Finding some things on the national web site is difficult. Not as difficult as the previous version but still difficult. Do you suppoe that is becasue there is not much information avaible to your or because there is so much available to you?

 

This is a good reson to use the topic specifc manuals first.

 

JM Walston

 

Whether you wore the The Quartermaster Award or the knot representing it would depend on the uniform you were wearing. Since Quartermaster is a Sea Scout Rank, a youth in a Sea Scout Uniform would wear the rank patch. A youth in a Venturing uniform would the knot.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Horizon]

I would welcome more information on the web, that is also cross-indexed (maybe Wiki style). I have found myself flipping through my hard copy Handbook, G2SS and SM Handbook. However, I do not have a copy of the uniform regs nor the fundraising regs (since we only do the Council popcorn and ticket sales). I did not even THINK of the issue of Eagle Projects and fundraising, for example. However, I was interested in the statements here about the need for Tour permits.

 

Part of the reason for a Scout Regs Wiki would be that we could create a link for patrol activities, and have links for all of the regs about Patrol camping. What a great centralized place to show that Patrols CAN camp without adults, and since it is not a Troop activity they do not need a Tour Permit.

 

In the same sense, a single place that links to all of the rules regarding Webelos camping would be great. Yes, the information is out there - but it is in different places.

 

I would love to turn the urban legends into a TF Quiz (much like the Advancement Quiz), with each answer quoting the relevant bits as well. It would be another great document to use at a Parent Committee meeting.

 

Finally - regardless of how online tone might be at times misunderstood, I greatly appreciate Bob White's postings. I KNOW that I can come here and get some clarification on the rules and regs. He is Helpful in that regard.

[Kahuna]

Bob White writes: Whether you wore the The Quartermaster Award or the knot representing it would depend on the uniform you were wearing. Since Quartermaster is a Sea Scout Rank, a youth in a Sea Scout Uniform would wear the rank patch. A youth in a Venturing uniform would the knot.

 

It would also depend upon whether the youth elects to wear an adult uniform. Quartermasters are allowed to wear the adult Sea Scout leader uniform with either the square knot or the medal.

 

If they wear the youth uniform, I suppose they wear the Sea Scout anchor device patch with no stars on the left pocket?

[Eamonn]

". Do you suppose that is because there is not much information available to you or because there is so much available to you?"

Think maybe I'm asking the wrong questions!!

Ea

 

[eisely]

One source of these urban legends is that some things that are not true today may well have been true, or at least partially true, in the past.

 

In reading through LisaBob's list of urban legends regarding Cub Scouts I notice the point about a boy getting credit for certain things done in Cub Scouts towards requirements in Boy Scouts. When our oldest son first became involved in a Boy Scout troop, the official handbook for the boys actually had such information in it. That is to say, if a boy could demonstrate that he had done a certain thing as Webelos Cub Scout, he could get credit for a particular rank skill requirement. That particular scheme was discarded shortly thereafter, but I can see how someone who has not attempted to stay current could still have such an idea.

 

Whenever I am functioning as a trainer I try to be very conscientious about making sure I am providing current information whatever the topic may be. Where I know that "urban legends" may exist I sometimes incorporate that into my spiel, like asking the trainees if fixed blade knives are permitted, or if a double bladed axe is permitted. It is an interesting way to stimulate discussion and drive home a point that everyone has to be on their toes when relying on an "oral tradition" of scouting.

[Lisabob]

NW Scouter, thanks for catching that. What I *meant* to type was "AoL award cannot be worn on the Boy Scout uniform" (not the knot). So maybe faulty proofreading is the start of a new urban legend

[Kahuna]

Correction to my earlier post. After consulting uniform and insignia guide, I realize youth members would wear the Quartermaster Award patch on their left pocket if they choose to wear the youth uniform.

[Bob White]

What the youth Sea Scout with the Quartermaster award would wear would depend on which youth uniform or which adult uniform he wore.

 

Keeping in mind that there are three adult unforms and three youth uniforms. On the adult work uniform the Youth would wear the Round patch on the left pocket or the knot, on the adult dress White Uniform the youth would wear the knot over the left pocket. on the Adult Dress Blue Uniform the Scout would wear the knot over the left pocket.

 

With the youth uniforms the youth Quartermaster would wear the Quartermaster Rank Badge.

[Eamonn]

Bob White,

Help me out.

You post:

"Keeping in mind that there are three adult uniforms and three youth uniforms."

I'm having a problem with the three youth uniforms.

We use the Working Uniform (with the chambray shirt) and the White Uniform. Which I think is the "Official Sea Scout Uniform" (Along the lines of the "Official Venturing" Uniform.

I know some Ships wear the Blue Uniform, but I was led to believe that this was not an official uniform.

Of course I'm aware that as Sea Scouts are part of Venturing this entire uniform thing is a real mess.

Eamonn.

 

[Kahuna]

Keeping in mind that there are three adult unforms and three youth uniforms. On the adult work uniform the Youth would wear the Round patch on the left pocket or the knot, on the adult dress White Uniform the youth would wear the knot over the left pocket. on the Adult Dress Blue Uniform the Scout would wear the knot over the left pocket.

If by adult work uniform you mean the blue chambray, a QM youth would not wear the round patch at all. Youth do not wear those on any adult uniform. The SS manual doesn't give a clear answer to what he wears on the adult work uniform, but the consensus here is that he would wear the blue SS anchor patch on his left sleeve, where a mate or skipper would wear the same patch with stars under it.

SS manual does say that on the khaki work uniform, QM youth members wear the plain anchor lapel pin on each collar. On the dress blue uniform, QM wear the SS anchor patch on both sleeve cuffs.

[emb021]

For Sea Scouts, there are 6 uniforms:

 

Adults wear one of 3 uniforms: summer tan, summer white, and dress blues. The summer tan is the 'adult work uniform', not the chambray (sp) blue uniform.

 

Youth wear one of 3 uniforms: white 'crackerjacks', blue 'crackerjacks', and chambray blue work uniform.

 

Keep in mind that adult uniforms are based on navy officer uniforms, and youth on navy enlisted uniforms.

 

I do see some Ships have adults wear chambray blue and Ships were youth wear white uniforms similiar to the adult uniform. I also see adults in black shirts and pants (usually out west). All incorrect, but so be it.

 

The current SSM is pretty clear on what are the uniform options for youth and adults, males and females.