Early Webelos crossover

[kahits]

Thanks, InfoS... that is really what I was trying to imagine, in terms of them attending meetings while still maintaining their active Webelos status. We are having our Klondike in January, and if they are going to try and camp, while attending the event, we will need time to prepare them, before they are active members of the troop, which probably won't be until after New Years.

 

I have been very honest with their parents, this spring, in terms of what the troop will need from them, and they are already a very active bunch of scouters, so I don't think I'm pushing anyone over a cliff here. I admit that this group is the core of the pack, right now, so they have their own concerns that relate more to the future of the pack then, the troop. The boys are getting ready for Boy Scouts, especially after they spent a week of Webelos in the Woods, last week at the Council camp, but the parents have their concerns. I'll meet with the pack leaders on Monday, and meet with the Webelos parents, as soon as that can arranged. With school about to start, that may take a while.

 

We would like to invite them to come with us to Fall Camporee or our Winter campout to White Sands in December, but these will all be up to their parents to support with their time and commitment. As for our need to transition leaders, that can wait until whenever they are ready to crossover. There is not impending demise to the troop, but I am going to make sure they know what our program/events are going to be, so they can chose what they want to do, or wait until the next time. I invited them to our program planning workshop, this weekend, so they can participate in the decision making, and see what some of the troop traditions are. Whatever happens is what is meant to be, and we will have new members in the troop, and thank you, Infoscouter for answering the question.

[infoscouter]

You're welcome, but be aware you'd be walking a fine line. You as Scoutmaster and the Webelos Den leader have to be on the same page about not making the Webelos Scouts into "Junior Boy Scouts", but allowing them to continue to experience the full Webelos program in parallel with the troop program, not as a "semi-sorta" patrol. They are still Cub Scouts, they are still a den. They will just be seeing more of the Boy Scout program than a den typically does with single evening visits. Remember, too that Cub Camping guidelines will still apply to these boys - they can *visit* camporees, not camp. When they camp with the troop (or as a den), they are supposed to have parents along.

 

*But*, if they're going to camp, introduce them to your menu planning and food buying process. Have a Boy Scout help them make a duty roster. Have a Boy Scout demonstrate what to pack, and then have the Boy Scout do their gear check. You get the idea. It will be like having a set of rotating Den Chiefs you can shuttle into their den meetings for a skill instruction, without totally pulling him away from the troop.

 

Your big plus will be the ability to prepare the parents. They need a lot of help making the transition. This will allow them to get comfortable with the controlled chaos of a troop meeting, and seeing the boys run things. Plan a series of 15-30 minute parent meetings where one aspect of Boy Scouting is covered (advancement, troop management, camping, and so on).

[kahits]

Very well put, InfoS.. We have several months for this to happen, and I'll be meeting the pack leaders on Monday, to go over the big picture and how it works best for the pack to transition their largest den and group of active parents. Obviously, this is all good for the troop, and patience will be key to doing this right for all concerned. The important thing is the boys are fired up to joining Boy Scouts.

[eolesen]

GW, glad to see you still like to split hairs on a tangent...

 

You're right the CC and COR approve leader applications. But in my neck of the woods, the SM still has a say over who serves as ASM in a direct contact role. If you're not an ASM, you take a back seat unless it's a safety issue.

[Gold Winger]

"GW, glad to see you still like to split hairs on a tangent..."

 

Not a tangent, a secant.

[Scouter&mom]

We move the boys up in February at Blue and Gold. This allows us to spend the fall working on BS skills, like tents, and menu planning and get in a camping trip or two. Maybe even join the Boy Scouts on a fall campout. We have BS camporee in late March or early April so the boys still have the better part of two months to become part of the troop before camporee.

 

This is the plan I hope to follow next fall with the Webs den that I am going to be DL for. (I am excited about going back to Webelos from Boy Scouts.) They are lots of fun and I enjoy getting them all excited about making the transition to Boy Scouts.

 

[NJCubScouter]

Scouter&mom, I think that is exactly the right attitude and "spirit." There is no rush. February or March is a perfectly good time to cross over, and in the meantime a well-planned pack/den program will give them more than enough to do as Webelos who are about to make the transition. I think it is natural for boys (and their parents) to have a sense of impatience before any transition, regardless of when it is. Most high school seniors I have known think they know more than enough by February or so to graduate, but graduation isn't until June. If crossover is in February, by September the boys may be thinking, why do I have to wait so long? (Especially if their parents encourage this way of thinking.) But if crossover were in October, they would be feeling that way by June. It's just another version of "senioritis."

[BuffaloSR793]

This is where experienced Webelos leadership is invaluable. The Webelos den leader should prepare the Scouts for Troop live as much as possible. If the Webelos are not prepared for the type of Troop they are going in, they will either be bored to death and leave or intimidated and leave.

 

The Webelos leader should find out what kind of programs each Troop is running, when the boys participate in an outing with the Troop it will give them an idea. If you just go to meetings, they won't get a good indication what the Troop does.

 

The transition from being big man on campus to a newcomer is a tougher transition for some boys.

 

Furthermore, just because the boys have a bunch of activity badges and have completed the AOL requirements, does not mean they are physically or emotionally ready for Troop life. Thats where preparation comes in.

 

Our Webelos Patrol, (We call ourselves a Patrol rather than den), acts very similar to a Boy Scout patrol. Additional repsonsibilities are added to each boy, a Patrol Leader, Assistant Patrol leader, Scribe, ect.. are elected. the Patrol leader job is rotated either monthly or bi monthly, so every boy gets a chance at leadership roles.

 

Long story made short, we try to introduce Boy Scout life in small increments so its not such a shock to the boys when they go to the Troop.

 

 

 

[croushorn]

Youve received some very valuable advice here! I concur! Ive dealt with this from our Pack as well, when they finish their AOL early and the PACK has scheduled their crossover date for months later Troops dont have any say in the matter (but offer advice as to what has worked best in the past). I prefer February crossovers as they can take part as the big kids in the Pinewood and as a Den in the Klondike. If they crossover before those events, then they miss their PD and for the Klondike are dispersed into our patrols; typically theyre lost in the Scout Skill requirements they cant contribute to and dont know their new patrol members yet. Not a fun day for them. That said, Ive had them come once or twice a month to our Troop meetings to start getting them into the routine and get a better feel for how things work in the BS level. They still do breakout sessions with the ASM & Troop Guide and it makes the transition much smoother. Plus it keeps you from losing them to another troop that has welcomed them to join right away. Unfortunately we do get DLs that are burned out by this time and instead of doing this, they just dont schedule any meetings and the boys quit.

 

Caution - Depending upon your weather climate you dont want to take a bunch of 10/11 year olds on their first campout out in sub-freezing weather in Jan/Feb and even Mar with the rest of your troop I dont care what others say, theres very very few (none IMO!) boys that age truly prepared to enjoy a winter campout that early in their BS experience. And even as there will be folks that are totally convinced their Johnny Newscout is the exception, there needs to be careful plans for how you are going to manage that first experience in what can be bitter cold. A cold kid on his first campout is easily lost to your troop (took me a hard couple years to learn that one!).

 

Also be cognizant of how this affects your older guys. Usually in the fall we kind of coast on our campouts as everyone now has a few month or so of camping under their belt and have a clue over what is going on. The homesickness has been dealt with, they know each other well, duties/menus are understood, it can be a calm and fun time. Let the older guys enjoy that while it lasts. They can get a little deflated when were continually asking them to tolerate a bunch of 10 year olds. They have to face that soon enough after crossover, so be careful how much we put on their shoulders. It can drive away your older guys that are tired of seeing continual focus on the new and young kids. So dont forget about them during this time.

 

[kahits]

Thanks USR,

You speak from experience and I agree with all of it. Our situation is different in that our troop is very small, and is now mostly 11 and 12 year old kids, who are just a year ahead of this den. My son (14 & SPL) and another boy (13) are all that remains of the older group, with most having aged out, and others who left the troop, because they just didn't want to be leaders, which is what was being asked of them, due to their ages. Obviously, we have a different set of needs then the pack, and when I meet with the pack leaders on Monday, I need to make sure the troop needs do not override those of the pack and their Webelos den. They are, understandably, going to want to make sure the pack survives, and I don't blame them a bit. My pack has struggled tremendously in the 2 1/2 years since we left, but that pack attracts mostly single parent families, looking for adult male leaders, which drove me a little crazy in the 5 years I was there.

 

Even with a December crossover, my ASM is adamant that they will not be going to Klondike, which I have to agree is probably not a good idea. My son's den crossed over in January, because they wanted to do Klondike, but we had no snow that year, so it was cold but not wet. I realize the more experiences our current, youngest scouts have, away from these crossover scouts, the more experienced they will become, once they do join the troop. They, all, went to Brownsea and Scout camp this summer, so had 2 weeks at the camp, in the first 3 weeks of June, and loved every minute of it. This discussion has given me pause to not push that den so hard, even though their boys want to join now!

[Basementdweller]

I must be missing something here. Please enlighten me.

 

Boy scout skills? What exactly are those?

 

Our Cubs have been family pack camping (3 times a year minimum) since they were tigers. They know the deal. Most the boys wolves and bears will tent together and are required to setup and take down their tent when doing so. They boys for rank advancement plan the menus and cook. Some meals are better than others.

 

I think they are fairly well prepared.

 

The only weakness maybe taking direction from a boy slightly older. But if they know their business then the boys will respect them.

[OldGreyEagle]

I have always thought of scouting skills as:

 

Starting a fire with a single match

Tieing all required knots at any time

Be able to lash a tripod or other handy camp tool

Be able to whip a rope

Find directions at night

Read a map and use a compass to negotiate an orienteering course

 

and a myriad of other things

[FScouter]

I never thought there was much importance in making sure a Webelos Scout was "prepared" before joining a troop. Prepared or not, AOL or not, all new members start at the bottom. The troop does all the training necessary. A troop is fully capable of welcoming a completely green 11 year old with no Cub Scout background and never camped a day in his life. Its what we do. We have a troop guide, instructors, assistant Scoutmasters. No boy is going to feel intimidated.

[croushorn]

Boy scout skills? What exactly are those?

Look, before we get our skirts all ruffled here, there's a lot of diffences. As simple as those of maturity between ages to as major as comparing the BS handbook and requirements to the that of the Webelo Handbook. Family camping is quite different than Troop camping.

 

I never thought there was much importance in making sure a Webelos Scout was "prepared" before joining a troop.

Then you are the benefactor of an incredible (and rare) Pack program and/or a very well coordinated Troop program for new Scouts. I wish I could be so lucky!

 

[FScouter]

If you join the Army is it important to know how to shoot a rifle or march or clean the latrine before joining?

 

There are no prerequisites to joining a troop. No skills are required. If an unprepared Webelos Scout joins a troop, how is he hindered in any way? If a green kid with no Cub background joins what disadvantage does he have that can't be remedied in 30 days and 1 campout?