evanscm Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I have a family that would like to go camping at a district campout. They were told that because they are not married they could not go together. This specific campout offers two man tents, and this family has four members going. the mother and her fiancee, her son and daughter. I dont see why they cant put mom and son in one tent, and the other two in a different tent? Even mom and daughter in one tent and the other two in a different tent? This doesn't seem right to deny them an oppurtunity for a family outing? Any ideas or opinions would be appreciated thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Winger Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 We have rules that don't work well in today's society. However, they are still the rules. Mom and daughter can tent together. But boy friend and and boy cannot. Neither can mom and sweetie pie. Just the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 This is not done capriciously to deny the family a fun opportunity. It is done to protect the children. Youth Protection specifically forbids a youth from sleeping in a tent with an adult who is not his parent or guardian. There is no reason why the entire family can not go on the campout. They have a few options. 1)They can purchase a larger 3/4-man tent for the mom and her 2 children and let the fiancee use a council 2-man on his own. 2)Borrow a larger 3/4-man tent from a Troop and have fiancee use 2-man. 3)Use 3 of the council's 2-man tents with fiancee in one, mom in one, and kids in one. Depending on the ages of the kids, if they don't want to tent with each other, one can tent with mom and one can tent solo, or everyone can tent separately in 4 of the 2-man tents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Winger Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Another option is to go see a lawyer and get a paper that says that the fianc (only one 'e' for men) is the boy's guardian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireKat Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Two more: 1)Grandparent(s) with grandkids, no parent in attendence. 2) Married couple, son(s) from previous relationship of mother. Not formally adopted by new husband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 This is an important question and not a decision you should make based on the opinions of strangers on the Internet. You should REALLY be talking with your District Executive. (This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireKat Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Ask a DE with only 6mo of total scouting experence (fressh out of school)? I think I would like a few seasoned opinions before asking someone so green. That way if it sounds like a case of 'baffle them with B...S..' I would know to continue up the ladder to get a more experenced verdict. Been burn that way before. And the tap dance always points back to the originator of the problem if it hits the fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 A DE doesn't have have any Scouting experience. He just has to know where to get the correct answer. An internet chat forum will give you 12 opinions, 11 of which are likely to be wrong, maybe even all 12. Except of course for "my" opinion which is always right. See how easy this is. "Everybody" is right, just ask them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Yup DE is the person who should have the correct answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew21_Adv Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 evansm and Fellow Scouters, Greetings! I concur with most all of our fellow posters. The DE should be able to obtain the answer. But I've got a great idea, which I'll address at the end. District and Council camps are specifically arranged for the Cub Scout, Boy Scout or Venturing membership. The opportunity to attend a Scout camp is for the Scout, not necessarily for the "family". Without creating a large controversy. There seems to be a difference in the definition in family. To bring it closer to home.... Just a few years ago, I too was a single parent/father. Eventually, I was courting a single mother. As we began to date, we finally broached some of the difficult topics to see if we may have similar likes and dislikes, discussing work, hobbies, and religion. After a few months of the boys and I always going to different Scout meetings and taking my sons to Scouting events on the weekend, plus youth sports, plus church, plus my own clubs and other hobbies. After a few months, she asked, "what does it take to spend more time with you?" I grabbed my Scout briefcase and handed her an adult application. Silly her, she filled it out and handed it back. I forked over the 10 dollars to the council office though. We camped together and took the boys to many Scouting events. But we never slept in the same tent, until after we legally became a "family". If a district was conducting a high adventure event, they would have to have completed a risk assessment and obtain additional medical insurance. Even if it was a routine camporee. The camp director does not have to accept the liability. But, some camp director's do purchase the additional insurance event coverage, and do accept the liability for unregistered guest. I doubt the "family" or the single mother and her fiance, you're referring to, has actually been told that they cannot attend a district campout together. I would believe it, if you had said that they have been told they cannot tent together, or arrange mutual sleeping arrangements. evanscm stated, "This doesn't seem right to deny them an oppurtunity for a family outing? Any ideas or opinions would be appreciated" Yes. I believe it is right. I speak from personal experience. My idea and advice, for 30 dollars and 30 minutes they can become a legal family and for 20 dollars and two adult BSA applications they can become registered adult leaders and resolve most of their own issues. For approximately 50 dollars they would not need to ask this question. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evanscm Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 Thank you all for your advice and ideas. I am fairly new to scout leadership, and dont yet know all the rules and regs. I have been to youth protection, and baloo, as well as multiple position specific trainings, but still questions come up and it is nice to know that i can get multiple responses and ideas from this site. I will always turn to my district office for questions I cant answer, but i also like to know what others might think. In this case, we have a solution agreed upon by the district and the camp, the mom will bring her own tent for her and the kids, and her fiance will sleep in the two man provided by the camp. I learned of this issue last night, after hours, and wanted a quick way to get some ideas and opinions. Thanks Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo1 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 There's another option, boy friend stays home. Since he's not married to the mom, he can stay home, see the importance of being married to mom and then boyfriend doesn't put a burden on the system of requiring more tents to accomodate HIM. I don't believe they are denying this "family" from an outing, but rather, setting an example that a family is a married mom, dad and kids (insert stepmom, stepdad as necessary) Additionally, the new DE can use the learning experience by asking the SE or other more senior DE's for the answer - he's gotta learn sometime. Crew_21 Adv, I think the actual "investment" is well beyond the $50. If they're shackin' up, perhaps it is only the $50 holding them back, maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I don't think it's any of our business whether (or when) these people choose to get married or how they choose to spend their weekend. We were asked for advice on an issue of what BSA policy says about who can be in what tent. Evanscm, the solution you reported in your second post is the one that avoids any issues under the applicable policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I do think it is very much a lot of our business if they want to carry their lifestyle into a Scouting event. An uncommitted shack-up relationship is a lousy model of the kind of moral behavior we should be demonstrating for our kids. The non-member stud with no kid in Scouting has no business at an overnight Scouting event with his honey. Stay home. And how does the kid feel about it? He has a chance to spend a weekend with his mom at a Scouting family camp and she wants to bring her boyfriend along? His life is disrupted enough with his dad not being in the family. Now he has to share his mom with another boyfriend. Sound mighty selfish to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Winger Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Are we talking about a boyfriend or are we talking about a betrothed here. One with whom she has probably shared breakfast many times and the kids know about it. Heck, the fiance might even be around more than the father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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