2 Deep Leadership - Husband and Wife

[scoutldr]

The lawyers here can correct me, but I was under the impression that, in most if not all states, spouses cannot be compelled to testify against each other, and are generally not considered to be capable of unbiased testimony.

[Bob White]

Adult "leader" refers to a registered adult in the BSA. Otherwise they are refered to simply as adults or parents. But a leader in the BSA is registered with the BSA.

[Basementdweller]

I believe as scoutdlr does regarding spouses and the legal system. Brings up a valid point I think that the H&W should be brought up in training.

[Gags]

Just to clarify what may not have been mentioned earlier - both adults do not need to be registered Scouters.

 

Per the G2SS: "Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be at least 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips or outings."

 

I read this to mean that all of the following scenarios are TECHNICALLY allowed:

 

a.) an 18 year old ASM and a parent 21 or older

b.) an 18 year old ASM and his best friend who's 21 but not a Scouter

c.) a 21 year old ASM and his best friend who's 18 but not a Scouter

d.) a 30+ year old SM and his 30+ year old wife.

 

It seems like they added the "parent" wording to discourage the fact that any 2nd adult would do, but didn't want to handcuff the units by always requiring 2 registered leaders for every trip.

 

I now stand ready to be corrected.

 

YiS,

 

Gags

[Bob White]

Gags

You may want to review your youth protection training as well as the Guide to Safe Scouting. Both state that the unregistered adult must be a parent of a scout who is on the trip.

 

Your scenarios (b and c) using best friends are prohibited by the youth protection policies of the Boy Scouts of America.

[Stosh]

And yet another scenerio:

 

In a crew both need to be over 21, one male and one female. If they are married and the husband is over 21 and Crew advisor, and the wife is registered as a Boy Scout Leader (ASM, or example) she still cannot attend the crew outing as a leader. She cannot attend at all because in the crew she could only register as a youth. Go figure on that one.

 

Stosh

[NWScouter]

Its been quite a few years since I took any Venturing training but I remember thinking I would have been in violation of the YP rules if Venturing had be around when I was first married and we had both been involved.

 

I was 21 and my wife was three weeks short of her 19th birthday on our wedding day..

 

The rules as I remember say that an adult leader and a youth in venturing cannot be romantically involved. It is a sticky wicket trying to protect youth that age and accepting the reality of society.

 

[Bob White]

"In a crew both need to be over 21, one male and one female. If they are married and the husband is over 21 and Crew advisor, and the wife is registered as a Boy Scout Leader (ASM, or example) she still cannot attend the crew outing as a leader. She cannot attend at all because in the crew she could only register as a youth. Go figure on that one."

 

Perhaps and perhaps not, your scenario does not state the age of the wife.

[ASM915]

BW,

Thanks, I stand corrected. It states "... a male and female adult leader, both over 21 years of age, and one registered as a leader with the BSA..."

Should that be changed to "adult"? Who is the second adult leader supposed to be registered to?

 

Since the scenarios are being thrown out there, here's some more food for thought.

 

CURVEBALL #1

Then again, if "An adult male leader must be housed with and responsible for the male participants" and visa-verse for the females, where is the YP? Is he or she suppose to sleep in the same facilities (room as the youth)? Just because there are 3 or 4 youth in a room with one adult does not a predator stop.

 

CURVE BALL #2

I understand the proposed problem with having the spouse along as the second adult, registered or not. What about the SM or ASM father and the ASM son or fathers brother being the only two adults on a camp-out? Should there be worry here? One can cover for the others behavior just as well as the spouse. Nothing states that they prowl alone or that you can't have a husband/wife predator combo. It's happens in the real world.

 

jb47, my son has a similar situation. He's a 21y/o ASM. The bride to be (4 weeks away) just turned 20. She's a former Crew member and would like to join the new Crew forming in town for the remainder of her youth status. Oh, the rules that govern.

[Stosh]

"She cannot attend at all because in the crew she could only register as a youth."

 

One should almost be able to deduce that if she can only register as a youth she must be under 21. Sorry I didn't make it perfectly clear, but one should have been able to conclude the point from the information given.

 

The point being she could be a registered adult in the Boy Scout program, but would only be able to be registered as a youth in Venturing, and couldn't register in her husband's crew either.

 

When one makes up conflicting rules, one might be able to draw a strong case for the validity of G2SS.

 

ASM915 - the wife could register as a youth in the new crew, but her 21 year old husband cannot be involved either as a registered leader of the crew nor a chaperone even though he is a registered ASM.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[Gold Winger]

"In a crew both need to be over 21, one male and one female. If they are married and the husband is over 21 and Crew advisor, and the wife is registered as a Boy Scout Leader (ASM, or example) she still cannot attend the crew outing as a leader. She cannot attend at all because in the crew she could only register as a youth. Go figure on that one."

 

I recall reading once that once a Venturer is over 18 and married they are considered an adult for Venturing purposes. I don't remember if that was on this forum, another forum, or some obscure BSA publication.

[Stosh]

As a CA of a coed unit, I checked into it and was informed by my council (for what that's worth) that no one under 21 in Venturing is ever considered an adult. With all the double standard and legal issues revolving around this whole setup, one would wonder how they could maintain this for almost 10 years now, but they have. Well, they have either maintained it or avoided it by not registering husband/wife in the same unit.

 

I wonder what the policy might be if a Troop and Crew go on a high adventure activity and the troop SM and or ASM is under 21? Does she bunk with the adults or with the kids?

 

I may be a far-fetched issue that may never happen, but how did this whole thing get through the legal dept of National?

 

Stosh

 

 

[Gold Winger]

"As a CA of a coed unit, I checked into it and was informed by my council (for what that's worth) that no one under 21 in Venturing is ever considered an adult."

 

I like the "for what's that's worth," comment. We're always told, "ask the professionals" but I get bad gouge so frequently from the Council office that I don't accept their answers unless they can point to a written document.

[Bob White]

First Venturing and Boy Scouting are two separate program. Why do people expect that they would? You do not expect Cubs and Boys Scoputs to have identical rues. What is a 9 year old in Boy Scouts??? He is not old enough. What adult position does a 19 year old hold in Venturing. None, they are not old eneough.

 

Next

"I wonder what the policy might be if a Troop and Crew go on a high adventure activity and the troop SM and or ASM is under 21/"

 

The scoutmaster can never be under 21. The membership policies of the BSA require that the SM be 21 or older. So if it was a troop event the SM has to be at least 21 and the AS has to be at least 18 and the unit can go, although for a high adventure outing they would do better taking 4 adults not two.

 

As for the crew if they had an advisor (BSA says they must be 21 or older) and another adult leader (who is also 21) and they can go. What is the big problem here?

 

 

 

 

 

[acco40]

It is my understanding that as long as each is over the age of 14, a husband & wife may belong to the same Venture Crew. If the wife is 20, the husband 22, he may be a registered leader, she may not (she is a youth in the eyes of the BSA for a Venture Crew) and they need to follow the same guidelines the same as if they were not married.