NeilLup Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Congratulations, guys, you've done it. You've pushed one of my really hot buttons concerning Scouting. This is a KID"S PROGRAM!!!! We are talking about a program which, by and large, is for kids 8-14 years old with some few youth who are older. When we start getting into exceedingly subtle theological distinctions and attempting to parse those distinctions in saying that some youth are welcome and others are not, I would respectfully suggest we have gone way, way, way over the line. Perhaps this is fun, perhaps it is not, but I am exceedingly hard pressed to see how it contributes to the citizenship, character and youth. Let's take some kids into the woods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 From the mouth of the guy who coined the term: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/sn-huxley.html and also, http://www.religioustolerance.org/agnostic.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Duplicate post and I don't know how it happened. Sure hope I haven't evolved into epalmer. In defence of this thread, I think that Avery displayed ample ability to understand this discussion. To suggest that scout-age boys should not be confronted with such depth might help explain why women are now coming into dominance in many intellectual pursuits. (This message has been edited by packsaddle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Neil is right. If y'all want to go any deeper with this, please spin it off in the Issues & Politics forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkS Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Man. Who died and made Neil and FScouter God? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 I agree, NeilLup, but it's the BSA that has decided some kids are to be rejected for not having acceptable religious views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaHillBilly Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 " >>I do not believe in any god, deity, higher power, whatever. And when I say "to do my duty to god" or "a scout is reverent" or "one nation, under god", I do not mean any of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Winger Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 " I've only been in Scouting for about 15 months, but I've already seen half a dozen Eagle project that consist of nothing more than mowing or bushhogging a trail, and then shoveling a little dirt or mulch on it." Eagle projects aren't about the complexity of the project or the "worth" of the project but about the leadership involved. As for popcorn . . . I've sold boatloads of the stuff with my son because people realize that the money is going to Scouting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaHillBilly Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 "As for popcorn . . . I've sold boatloads of the stuff with my son because people realize that the money is going to Scouting." One guy locally told me that he tells people the popcorn is 90% donation, 10% popcorn. That's trustworthy; that's what we'll do in the future no matter what we're told to do, or what literature we're given to use. But, telling people that the popcorn is a good value -- which in the normal use of English means that the popcorn is a good value -- is just good ol' American (dishonest) salesmanship. And that's NOT trustworthy. As for leadership, I won't try to get into the details, which I know irritate people. Suffice it to say that the leadership shown was no better than helpfulness of the projects "to any religious institution, school, or community". Understand: I do not blame the boys for this, and I'm not saying that I think these boys should be denied their Eagles. After all they are playing by the rules of the system they've been Scouts in. What I am saying is that 'Avery', when he says "I do not mean any of it" is playing by the same 'rules' that Scouters do when they call the popcorn "a good value". GaHillBilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Winger Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 I'm in sales and a good salesman doesn't lie because it comes back to bite you if you're looking to build repeat business. Scouting gets about 70% of the money, it says that right on the box. There's no need to embelish. Telling people otherwise, isn't being trustworthy, it is lying. As for quality . . . sure you can get a giant can of popcorn at Wal-Mart but have you ever tried that and compared it to Trail's End? Most of my customer's and my son's customers seemed to think that they were getting good value. On a lighter note, I was always amused by the people who would say, "I bought a box last year and I still have half of it left." If they weren't making that up . . . I just can't fathom that. A box of microwave popcorn is lucky to last a month in my house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Whoa, That's why we're here. From Belief in God to Belief in Popcorn. So, again, if one sees their "Duty to God" is to NOT believe in him/her/it, then where's the problem? The Scout Promise and Law are the Scout's basis of behavior, as we have seen noted before here. I agree that the Adult Scouters need to note, encourage and model the following of those life guides. It is very sad when they do not, but the ideals are still there for the Scout to aspire to. Belief is personal, and (thank God) the rules under which our fore fathers agreed we should all live include a proviso to worship as we wish, be it an active worship, an inactive type or none. Why? If a Scout is "not sure about this God stuff" ( I like that phrase), I say that is his/her privilege. I encourage that seeking. Only problem is, some are afraid (unconsciously?) they might actually find that of which they seek... Me, I HAVE to believe. I found some time ago that there was a gap, a hole, a chasm even, that needed filling in my life. That was the religion cubbyhole in my psche, I guess. If I had decided to not find the proper "filler" for that cubby, I now know that my life would be much less... lively? successful? All I know is it works... "Come and see.." To get Christian about it ( I tend to do so), "behold, I stand out side the door and knock". but even Jesus' knuckles may get tired. This does not prevent the door owner from saying, "hey, what happened to that noise?" and going to open the door, to find out. Avery: Keep your eyes and ears and mind and heart open. You'll find what speaks to your condition. Be willing to accept it when it appears. Science can tell us HOW the world works, but ultimately not WHY. That's what you are seeking, the WHY. Good Scouting to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmc222 Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 REVERENT is the 12th point of the scout law. It encourages us as scouters to realize that we are charged with the responsibilty to be thankful for what we have and take care of it. If you outright say that the world and all that is in it is not worth that effort then scouting is probably not your cup of tea. What it is about is acknowledging and caring for these gifts so they will be there for future generations. This usually infers that you recognize "God" Whether it be Jewish, Christian, Muslim, etc. By this acknowledgement you are accountable to that God for your actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Welcome to the forums! And thanks for sharing your personal feelings on this topic. In response to SSScout, one of my favorite New Yorker cartoons depicts several businessmen sitting around a table in some social setting. One of them explains, "I'll tell you why we were put here - we were put here to outperform the market!" To each, their own...god, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Welcome danmc222, Great thread to have a first post in! I agree. In fact, I think you could probably replace the 12 law with Leave No Trace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouter.claude Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 [Please re-post in the Issues & Politcs forum] (This message has been edited by a staff member.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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