Atheist / Agnostic Scout?

[Avery]

Hi, I am currently a member of the BSA, and I also do not believe in god. I want to know if you think I belong in scouts or not. Please give a reason for your opinion.

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond.

[GernBlansten]

Are you a Buddhist? Because athiest Buddhists are allowed in BSA, but unaffiliated athiests must leave.

Do I think you should belong to the BSA, yes, but I'm in the minority.

[Avery]

I am not a affiliated with any religion.

[John-in-KC]

Hello, Avery... and welcome...

 

Let me ask a couple questions: Are you old enough to drive? I use that as a breakpoint in how I discuss faith.

 

Do you go with your parents anywhere for worship?

 

What are your thoughts about a Higher Power at this point in your life? It's OK to struggle with faith. Been there, done that.

 

That's enough questions to start a real conversation. I'm not going to say No, you don't belong in Scouting. I'm a Dad of an older teen myself, and I've been a teen. Not having firm and formed opinions is part of life at this stage.

 

I'll be looking for your responses. Peace and Good Scouting to you.

[Avery]

My parents raised me without any religion. I do not know what they do or don't to believe. I am not old enough to drive, but I believe any person, no matter what their age, has the right to believe or not believe anything. And I do not think my age should play a significant role in this discussion. I have made a reasoned and well thought decision on my non-theism.

[Avery]

"Not having firm and formed opinions is part of life at this stage."

 

I don't necessarily agree with that. My non-theism is a decision I have come to after several years researching and thinking.

[FScouter]

John-in-KC says Not having firm and formed opinions is part of life at this stage.

 

On its face, I dont agree with that either. Persons of ANY age or stage of life can have firm opinions and firmly formed beliefs. I will say though that a lot of strong beliefs and opinions I had several years ago Ive strengthened, refined, or completely cast off.

 

And I do not think my age should play a significant role in this discussion.

 

A 10 year old can have an intelligent thoughtful discussion about atheism too. If for example you are 15, youve had an extra 5 years to develop a lot of thought about it and consider lots of different angles a 10 year old hasnt even yet dreamed about. A 15 year old has all the wisdom a 10 year old has, plus an extra 5 years of accumulated knowledge.

[Beavah]

Yah Avery, I reckon da point KC is tryin' to make is that young folks learn faster than old folks, and so their ideas change more rapidly, eh? Yeh don't believe in a god or gods right now, that's fine, and reflects the upbringing your parents gave you. Most young folks start with their parents' views by default, and then grow from there.

 

In Scoutin', we tend to be pretty tolerant of lettin' young people have time to grow. But in the end, as yeh approach Eagle/adulthoood, I reckon there reaches a point where each man has to make a choice about whether remainin' a member of an organization that does profess a Duty to God is an honorable thing to do.

 

Now let me ask you a question. When you say "I do not believe in god", what exactly do you mean by "god?" Lots of "gods" aren't worth believin' in, IMO. Or put another way, when you stand in front of other people and profess on your honor to do your duty to God, what do you mean by that?

 

I think your Scoutmaster and your fellow scouts should be challengin' you with tough questions like that, and vice versa.

 

Beavah

 

[le Voyageur]

By the tone of this thread it's apparent that you're still fishing for answers, trolling, or wanting approval for your decisions since you're now openly wearing your "nontheism" on your sleeve.

 

Thus, I'll flip your question back your way....do you think that you belong in Scouting, and if so, why? Consider your answer along BSA standards on this subject...

[Avery]

This thread has not gone exactly in the direction I thought it would. I did not intend this to be a debate over my personal beliefs. Really, what I wanted to know is if the BSA, in general, in intolerant of atheists, agnostics, non-theists, etc. I have already decided that I want to leave the scouts, I just wanted to use the information I got from this thread to help "build my case".

[Avery]

By "build my case" I mean convince my parents/relatives that I should leave the BSA. They have kind of a high expectation of me to stay with it.

[Avery]

"Now let me ask you a question. When you say "I do not believe in god", what exactly do you mean by "god?" Lots of "gods" aren't worth believin' in, IMO. Or put another way, when you stand in front of other people and profess on your honor to do your duty to God, what do you mean by that?"

Beavah

 

 

I do not believe in any god, deity, higher power, whatever. And when I say "to do my duty to god" or "a scout is reverent" or "one nation, under god", I do not mean any of it.

[BDPT00]

I'll throw my hat into the ring, and say good luck in your search for life's answers. Sorry to see an honest young man go. Maybe you'll be back some day. Maybe not. Good question though, and thanks for it.

BDPT00

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Avery, we deal with the questions you present us. Yours was so open-ended I needed additional clarity to form my answer.

 

B, you were right about where I was heading, thanks.

 

Avery, the question of age was to help me. It's hard to do this by internet message board, and the words I use for 12-14 year olds taking God and Country are different from the ones I'll use to share with you.

 

I don't know if you're Eagle yet, or driving on Eagle. If you're driving on Eagle, you will confront this issue, most likely, at your Eagle Board of Review. You may well be denied Eagle. Unlike many appeals we discuss here, it's possible your denial will stick.

 

The Boy Scouts of America, as part of the Character Aim, do emphasize a belief in a Higher Power. The specifics are given very broad latitude indeed. Shinto and Buddhism are in, as is Hindu, just as are Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. Someone in your neck of the woods can tell me if there are Native American majority troops where families still practice historic traditions.

 

There is a line. A-theism and non-theism are usually across the line. Adults must subscribe to a values statement of the BSA, called the Declaration of Religious Principle. Google it and Scouting and you'll get the precise wording. Failure to buy into the Declaration is and has been grounds to remove an adult from Scouting.

 

I will say this: Science can explain many things, but it cannot explain the beginning of the Big Bang. Sooner or later, to me, God is needed for "In the beginning...". Equally, I can explain more miracles, where the doc says "nothing more can be done," but the patient heals, with God than I can with random chance.

 

Do you belong in Scouting? That's not a head decision, that's a heart decision. It's for you and you alone to make. I would recommend having this conversation with a trusted Scouting adult local to you! There's a lot of emotion being lost as each of us types our replies. For now, I will say... Look at the Scout Oath. Look at the Scout Law. If those are living touchstones to you, then you may well belong here. If they're empty words, otoh, maybe Scouting has doen as much as it can for you.

 

Peace and Good Scouting to you.

[Eagledad]

>>I do not believe in any god, deity, higher power, whatever. And when I say "to do my duty to god" or "a scout is reverent" or "one nation, under god", I do not mean any of it.