ScoutParent.org

[fgoodwin]

I can only speak for my own experience, but I've never seen an Eagle at his ECOH who didn't thank his parents (especially his dad) for "helping" him to complete his Eagle (usually meaning Dad had to kick his b*tt more than a few times to get things done).

 

I know there are rare individuals who are self-motivated to complete all the Eagle requirements themselves w/o dad "encouraging" or reminding him, but I've seen darn few of those boys.

 

So, to you guys who think Boy Scouts means the parents should recede into the background: if that were truly the case, we'd see far fewer Eagles . . .

[Eagledad]

>> When it comes to challenged kids, I no longer see scouting as inclusive as the organization thinks it is.

[OldGreyEagle]

I wonder if any organization, composed of volunteers, is as inclusive as they can be. I know that as I travel around the country I find many guys in my age range, 50-60 that were Boy Scouts. Now, I thought being a scout was the bestest thing in the world, and I loved it. I have found many men who do not have pleasent things to say about the Boy scouts due to many factors. Mean adults is usually the best way to express their feelings, but I wouldnt say that in the 60' and 70's the BSA didnt do what it could to stop scoutmasters from being mean.

 

When my son got old enough to join up we did. He is an Eagle as I am. I think the troop I serve is as accomodating as can be. From my experience with other guys my age I have to say that scouting is certainly local. One troop can have a mentality that would chase all but the hardest core away while others accept everyone. I recognize I fell into two great experiences, as a youth and with my son. It was the volunteers who make the program what it is. Get a different mix of volnteers and life could have been very different for me. To categorize an entire national organization based on a single unit is not fair, whether the unit is good or poor. The BSA strives to be inclusive, does that mean each unit chartered today would take every applicant regardless of challenge? Nope, it don't. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[dawnydiesel]

I couldn't even read these for the repeated use of the word "retarded". Seriously? Everyone has their pet peeves and boy, you just hit mine.

 

That said, and granted I'm in Cub Scouts, without my parents? I'd have no den. Plain and simple. I understand where everyone else is coming from within the Boy Scout rank but I push parental involvement as much as I can right now.

[eolesen]

Retarded isn't a slur. It's a medical condition which happens to affect my daughter. Quite frankly, it's a lot less offensive to me than some of the more delicate (and almost patronizing) politically correct terms that some people insist on using....

 

 

Let me just say that it is impossible to find volunteer adults that could work with and deal with all the issues that comes with those scouts. They do the best they can, but lets be reasonable, they are not trained professionals. Just adding one retarded scouts at summer camp tripled the work for the adults. OK, that is fine if the unit can handle it, but most folks dont realized the physical and mental stress involved with adding one such scout, not to mention several.

 

 

Try being the parent of one of those kids. You're with that stress 24/7... Yet, we find a way of making it work...

 

I'll politely disagree with you, though. There are volunteers who manage to find a way to deal with it. The last two churches I've belonged to managed to find parents willing to let kids with special needs find a way to be mainstreamed in church school classes. There's no reason you can't find someone willing to make a similar commitment in Scouting.

 

 

So that leaves the idea of a unit dedicated to such scouts. Well, we have one, or at least had one of those troops around. The leaders are a little more trained and prepared for the differences, but not all that many parents wanted such a troop. So it struggles, if not failed. Strangely, families of handicapped scouts desire normal troops to help their sons get assimilated into culture. So that puts us back to where we started, a program of just plain ordinary parents trying to do the best they can with extraordinary boys.

 

 

Yeah, and while we're at it, let's make 'em ride on the short bus, and spend their day in segregated classrooms or on a different campus altogether...

 

As the parent of a mentally retarded child, I'd never expect special treatment for my kid in a scouting unit. But I also don't expect her to be excluded from participating in a traditional unit to the best of her ability.

 

We have an all-autistic unit in our district, which sadly was formed because of the attitude that exceptional kids can't be in a program run by "normal" parents.

 

I'm not sure it's the best thing for the boys in the units, and frankly, it does a dis-service to the boys in the units who they'd otherwise participate in.

 

What's ironic is that I see where the kids always find a way to accept the special needs kids in their units. It's the parents who seem to have the most problem accepting it.(This message has been edited by eolesen)

[Eagledad]

>>There's no reason you can't find someone willing to make a similar commitment in Scouting.

[eolesen]

Barry, I earned my beads the same way you probably did, and my "normal" son is a project and a couple MB's away from his Eagle. So, to assume I don't understand the way the program works in practice is snipe droppings...

 

 

In the traditional units I've worked with as an ASM, an ADC, and a disabilities MBC, I've seen mobility impaired Scouts, ADHD to extremes, mental retardation, and at least one bi-polar who though meds were optional at summer camp....

 

Like you, we didn't seek these kids out -- they found us. And we welcomed them, and never faced a situation where we had to ask them to leave. Some dropped out on their own, and a few parents decided that they were too self conscious about their son's disability and the extra work it usually required on the part of the leaders.

 

Sure, there are challenges, and we had our share of dump-and-run parents. But fear of what could happen alone isn't enough of a reason to push the kids towards a SN unit.

 

Frankly, every one of the the problems you mention with the SN kids from your experience happen with the "normal" kids as well (including a kid who stripped to his skivvies and refused to get dressed... and his dad was with on that particular campout!).

 

There will always be kids who aren't suited to participate in every aspect of the program. That's just a fact of life.

 

But when the day arrives we aren't willing to "help other people at all times" then we need to stand aside find someone willing step up to the challenge.

 

And I know they're out there. As an ADC, finding experienced Scouters to work hands-on with the all-autistic pack wasn't too difficult. Getting them a UC who could handle their uniqueness was more of a challenge, but that eventually happened as well.

 

All you have to do is ask. Sometimes it takes a little longer, but there are people willing to take on the challenges. It shouldn't be at the expense of the other kids, but I can't stand by and watch "separate but equal" be stated as a preferred method.

 

I also can't stand by and watch "separate but equal" be exhibited to the other kids. It's bad enough we have divisions within Scouting loosely based on religion, skin color, and language...

 

At the end of the day, the SN Scouts are still boys who benefit from the Scouting experience. They may never progress past Tenderfoot, and may never be able to figure out a bowline or remember how to put up a tent, but they do walk (or roll) away as better people because of it. And so do we.(This message has been edited by eolesen)

[Eagledad]

>>Barry, I earned my beads the same way you probably did, and my "normal" son is a project and a couple MB's away from his Eagle. So, to assume I don't understand the way the program works in practice is snipe droppings...

[eolesen]

If you've seen snipe droppings, then you're one up on me.

[Ahoydave]

Snipe droppings is a good analogy for scouting and the mentally challenged. Some don't think a problem exists while others wish they weren't stepping in something that shouldn't exist.

 

There are several realities I have learned from being an ASM, a father of an autistic scout, and a Special Olympics coach. First, "normal" kids are willing and able to accept special kids if the adults provide an example. If the adults are fearful or too rigid in their ways, the kids will follow their example. As the special kids get older, the younger kids are less inclined to include them. They need guidance and/or incentive. Finally, the adults are usually parents of scouts and their own kids come first. Special kids efforts are easy to ignore. This ain't snipe droppings. Been there, done that. The PROGRAM needs program wide incentive.

 

To address the fears so many adult leaders have, I work with mentally challenged kids in SO. In the whole, they are generally easier to work with than "normal" kids that are often infected with boredom.

 

The worst and all too common problem kids are those with emotional issues stemming from a dysfunctional family with a parent active in the troop. The cause of the problem accompanies the kid. The best way I found to deal with it was to have the parent work with my autistic son. When the source of the problem is removed, progress can be made. Unfortunately, the kid goes back home.