Where does the money stop and Scouting begins?

[Bayou Beaver]

Here we go................

 

The last couple of Council and District events in my opinion was not worth my time or effort. For example: for two people, it cost 50 bucks to spend the weekend at our local camp. The 50 dollars included 1 day of events, 3 meals, a patch and a neckerchief.

 

For the same price I could do two family camping trips and we don't have to wait in line for 40 minutes to shoot a BB gun for 5 minutes.

 

I am taking over as Cubmaster of an established pack next year and some of the leaders have expressed there dissatisfaction with council and district events. We feel that we can put on a better, cheaper, (THRIFTIER) program for our Scouts if we skip council events.

 

I kind of like the idea but being in a pack that has been Council and district friendly, I don't want to send a bad message.

 

While I am on the topic, why do you have to sell popcorn to get Quality Unit? It makes me feel dirty that I have to sell popcorn to get a patch! and on top of that the Cubmaster Knot requires your unit to get Quality Unit twice during your tenure.

 

I know I have skipped around a bunch, and I know people from my district will probably read this, (no offense, I know you work hard) but is Scouting about money or is it about delivering the best program you can? Is a good solid active unit not good enough if I don't sell popcorn? Is there somewhere that Baden-Powell says "support you council even though you feel like you can deliver a better program"?

 

Can I just write a check out to council and call it even?

[Gold Winger]

Fifty bucks! Gee, our people complain when the camporee costs $12 per scout. That is a bit steep, perhaps the solution is to sit on the district committee and find out why it cost so much.

 

Popcorn and Quality unit. You don't sell popcorn to get the patch. You sell popcorn to financially support the council. To be a QU you need to support council.

 

I've forgotten, is there a minimum popcorn sale required? Buy one case, split among the committe and be done with it, if it bothers you that much.

 

There's no obligation to go to council events. Pack events are fine.

[pizzaerick]

 

 

Makes you feel dirty? It shouldn't. It's not just the salary of the VERY FEW professional scouters.. it's the camps, the training, the insurance, the camperships... You get the idea. It's all gotta be paid for somehow. And if you think popcorn is a raw deal, talk to a GS leader about cookies!

 

 

[Gold Winger]

Neither popcorn nor GS cookies are a raw deal. Popcorn pays the unit over 30%. GS cookies pay the troop about 15%. Find me a store that has makes a net profit of 15% and I'll find you an overjoyed storekeeper.

[evmori]

You shouldn't have to sell popcorn to be a QU. To me, that's blackmail.

 

$50 for a camporee? WOW! We usually charge around $10/person!

[Bayou Beaver]

Shouldn't registration pay for a few salarys? I would rather ask for a 10 dollar donation than rip somebody off by selling them a 2 dollar box of popcorn for 7 dollars. It was not a camp-o-ree, it was a bigger event we call Cub-World, it is a council event not a district event.

[John-in-KC]

Registrations rarely if ever cover salaries. They do cover:

 

Facility rental.

 

Trash contract (rarely included in the facility in my neck of the woods)

 

Latrine contract (again rarely included in the facility rent around here).

 

Insurance on the activity.

 

AND program area operating costs.

 

Fifty dollars is pushing the envelope, OTOH, fuel is driving up all costs across the board. A tour operator I know had to invoke his emergeny price increase clause for the first time ever, so his early payers could be billed the additional fuel surcharges.

 

I'd ask your District Acvitivies Chairman or your DE how the costs actually broke down.

[scoutldr]

If you mean the annual BSA registration, none of that stays with the local Council. It all goes to Irving, TX to pay THEIR salaries.

 

I just checked the Centennial QU form and there are two OPTIONAL goals: visits from your Unit Commissioner, and participation in the annual product sale (not all councils do popcorn). Repeat, OPTIONAL.

 

That being said, there are few revenue streams for the Council, the major ones being FOS and Popcorn. Council/district activities should be self-supporting, so maybe whoever runs them needs to scale back expenses. Does everyone really need or want a matching neckerchief? Like the others, our camporees run about $10-12. That includes all expenses, like portapotty rental, crackerbarrel supplies, a patch, insurance, etc. Back in the day, we could get matching patch/necker/coffee mug, but those cost extra for those who wanted them. Extra patches are 3 bucks.

 

Being on the District committee, we once were lectured by the DE about criticising "them" at Council. We have met the enemy and they is us.

[Eagledad]

>>It makes me feel dirty that I have to sell popcorn to get a patch! and on top of that the Cubmaster Knot requires your unit to get Quality Unit twice during your tenure.

[ScoutNut]

OK - Lets hear it from other Cub Leaders out there - How many of you pay LESS than the $25 ea that Bayou Beaver spent, for a Council Parent/Cub weekend at a regular Council Cub Camp? How about at a Cub-World?

 

I would venture to say not many.

 

Our Cub Summer Adventure Camp Weekend costs $108 per Scout and $83 per adult (early bird prices were $88/$63).

 

That cost covers the facility costs (including electricity, water, gas, etc), insurance, the Ranger, all supplies (crafts, bb's, replacement arrows, game equipment, etc), table/chair/awning rentals, food for lunch, dinner, campfire snacks, breakfast, water bottle, t-shirt, and a patch. I am sure I am leaving out a bunch of expenses too.

 

If you, as you say, can accomplish TWO (2) camping trips for your entire FAMILY for a total of $50, and include all food, site rental and all craft and other activity supplies, then you are are a better budgeter than I have ever seen. Unless we ate 3 meals of bbj sandwiches and maybe splurged on 1 box of dried cereal, and walked to the campsite, I could not do ONE(1) family camping trip for $50.

 

BTW - You do NOT have to sell popcorn to earn Quality Unit.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

We had a poster a few years back that showed no restraint in hiding his contempt for "Council". His troop did pretty much what they wanted and when they wanted and of course they had no time for FOS or Popcorn. The unit had not been to a Council Camp in quite awhile and then the unit applied for a few Camperships from Council to get a few boys to Philmont and were turned down, and he was outraged, said this confirmed his take on "Council" as being useless money sucking pigs, or words close to it.

 

Who is "Council" anyway? Is it the Council Executive and Associated DE's along with associated levels of Management? When a "Council" event takes place, who is responsible for the planning, management, and budgeting? In the COuncil I serve, its the volunteers, the Professionals support, but the Volunteers plan and run it. I would like to know how other Councils do things, it may not be done the same everywhere. Before a unit quits on Council, it may need to look at itself. If the unit has anyone who could put time in on a Council level, perhaps that person should avail him/her self of that opportunity. In a volunteer organization, if you constantly criticize without offering to make it better, nothing will ever please you. Then again, if you offer to help and are rebuffed, it may not be bad to drop out for 3-5 years to see if the hierarchy changes. DOnt be a unit that doesnt support council because 10 years ago, a council event stunk. And if you decide not to do FOS or Popcorn, dont complain if Council service slacks off, there are consequences to all actions.

[AvidSM]

$25 per person for a weekend Council cub scout event may be reasonable, depending on what you are getting. Food costs have gone up and the fee for renting portajohns has also gone up in one year. If you don't think you are getting your money's worth, you don't have to go to events like these. The only problem is that you can't shoot BB guns unless you have someone trained certified to run a range.

 

Popcorn sales are a source of funding for Council - that's why they push it so much. The money that Council gets from these sales does not pay for events like Cub-World, which is self funded. It pays for the operation of the Council office - the salaries of the professionals, rent, heat, supplies, etc.

 

The problem with not participating in popcorn sales (or FOS) is that it increases the burden on the units that do. It also forces the scouting professionals to focus on raising money instead of supporting their units.

[Sephrina]

We are paying $24.00 for a two day daycamp not including food, but it does include the early pay and gold card discounts. A couple of years ago, my daughters gs troop did their camping trip for around $20.00 per girl.

[Gold Winger]

Something else that folks need to do is compare the cost of Scouting to the cost of other youth activities. If your son plays on a travel team for any sport, that gets to be quite expensive. Band? Orchestra? Dance? Cheer athletics (cheerleading to those of us from the 60s)? It all gets quite expensive.

 

Sometimes you can look at a Scouting event and say, "Why did we spend the money?" If that happens don't go the next year.

 

I'm with you on the waiting 40 minutes to shoot a BB gun. That sounds like bad planning on the part of the event organizers.

[Eagledad]

>>The problem with not participating in popcorn sales (or FOS) is that it increases the burden on the units that do. It also forces the scouting professionals to focus on raising money instead of supporting their units.