Conducting an Interfaith Service (BSA supplemental training)

[Narraticong]

I'm comfortable with gravity. When my overly large body fins itself off the ground, it ALWAYS finds its way back down. Sometimes with an abrupt and brusing halt.

 

Evolution? I struggle to understand how life came from inert matter. Where did all that matter come from? How does evolution support "In the Beginning..."? Evolution as a theory states that the universe is constantly changing and will someday come to an end. If we believe there will someday be an end, there must have been a beginning.

 

That is where I agree with the Theory of Evolution. The beginning is found in Genesis and the end is found in Revelation. It wraps things up pretty tightly. You see, Evolutionists choose to believe in something they can not see: in a Bajillion to one chance of inert matter becoming life. And that single cell life then becoming Man. What are the odds of that happening? I choose to believe in a God I also can't see. The difference is that he came to walk with us as a man whose miracles many did see and record. I like those odds of that a lot better!

 

I told you not to open that can...

 

"Is it over? Not until we say it's over!!! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?..."

[BadenP]

It really frosts me when someone wants to disguise ignorance under the blanket of a misinterpretation of scripture or a false teaching. God created man from the dust which is inert matter Narraticong. I would not be bragging too much about your daughter challenging her teacher with the same nonsense you propose, close mindedness = ignorance. Are you also espousing to your daughter that she get married after high school, have a lot of kids and be a stay at home mom? If you are there is a compound in Texas you might consider joining.

 

 

[FScouter]

"I told you not to open that can... "

 

Well, now that it's open, a good place to explore it in depth would be a spin-off topic in the Issues forum. That will save this topic for discussion as indicated in the topic title.

[pizzaerick]

We did the "interfaith" thing recently at woodbadge, and it was probably the most contentious and divisive thing I have seen in any training session.

 

I would rather "observe" the worship of another faith than to be participating in a service that seemed to offend everyone by trying to include everyone.

 

As leaders, we find a place for faith in our program, and try to make sure everyone is respected.

 

I could rip apart the service from the "fake" native prayer, to the structure content and even the time... but I think that's been done already.

 

Suffice it to say I agree that there is something wrong with the program.

 

 

[Trevorum]

I agree with pizzaerick. Observing the rites and rituals of another culture or faith can be terrifically instructive, self-reflective, and even enjoyable. Being forced to participates in those rites can be uncomfortable, irritating, and even (as John has pointed out) wrong.

 

I'm sure that the motives behind the interfaith services in Scouting are admirable. However, in most cases they just don't work very well - and for a surprisingly wide variety of reasons.

[GernBlansten]

Could someone please reference the requirement to worship? I understand the Duty to God and Reverent. But neither require worship. Some faiths do, and I understand that, but in the realm of BSA requirements, where does it state you must worship the higher being?

[fgoodwin]

Nick, like I told John, sometime my thick skull misses things -- can you point me to where the Interfaith syllabus (or ANYTHING in Scouting for that matter) "forces" anyone to participate in "those rites"?

[John-in-KC]

In the Cub Scouting program, Bear Achievements 1 and 2 are overt requirements to worship.

 

In the Boy Scouting program, though, there is not an overt requirement to worship.

 

Now, the words from "Role of the Chaplain and Chaplains Aide" say:

An overnight event should include worship experiences, either for the individual or for the troop.

http://www.scouting.org/media/relationships/chaplainrole.aspx

 

That said, no mandate.

[fgoodwin]

John, were you responding to my question to Nick about being "forced" to participate in "those rites"? I'm not sure what you are alluding to with your somewhat vague references to Bear achievements 1 and 2.

 

Bear achievement 1a states under the Character Connection for Faith, "Practice YOUR FAITH" (emphasis added)

 

Achievement 1b states: "Make a list of things you can do this week to practice YOUR RELIGION"

 

Bear achievement 2 states: "Earn the religious emblem of YOUR FAITH"

 

So what exactly does practicing your own faith have to do with Nick's statement about "forced" to participate in "those rites"? He was clearly implying that forcing someone to practice "rites" other than those of their faith can be problematic.

 

Unless I'm missing something (entirely possible) your comment strikes me as a non-sequiter

[John-in-KC]

Fred,

 

I didn't see your full point ... sorry.

 

I was pointing out the two places in the Scouting program where worship is an explicit requirement of advancement. ... and as we've both noted, they're down in the Cub program.

 

As you have said, those are explicit to single faith, not to interfaith.

 

John

[Beavah]

Yah, didn't really want to comment on this without seein' all da materials, but what the heck?

 

My comment: Blech!

 

What a ham-handed, awkward, inappropriate way to try to teach reverence. Rather than teach specific obligation and worship, religion that challenges da individual to be his/her best, we're substituting a bogus "uplifting and positive experience" to make everybody feel good. Have da dessert, but not the meal.

 

Worse still is da kind of "Scout Law idolatry" it seems to recommend. I'm a big fan of the Scout Law, eh? It's a fine thing to teach kids. But it's got nothing to do with God or Spirituality. The Scout Law ain't a religion. And putting it in place of a religion, as a pseudo-worship service or a replacement for scripture or whatnot... that's idolatry, pure and simple. It cheapens those deeper Laws and Commandments which are God-given by elevating a youth program saying to the same (or higher!) level.

 

As a few others have mentioned, rather than creatin' a fake service, we might encourage scouts and venturers to go to their own services, and to visit each others' services respectfully. Or, in the woods, to have each share a prayer from their own tradition, to encourage da practice and development of their individual spirituality, and mutual respect.

 

This make-believe "generic" stuff really is anathema.

 

Beavah

 

[fgoodwin]

John -- my apologies. I see now you were replying to GernB not me.

[John-in-KC]

Fred,

 

No problem, kind Sir. Have a good workweek.

[Trevorum]

Fred, you are correct, of course. Nothing in print requires anyone (youth or adult) to participate in any specific religious observance.

 

However, it has been my experience that is is often not possible to gracefully opt out of an organized "interfaith service". The organizers of the service naturally expect everyone to participate and rarely, if ever, give anyone the opportunity to excuse themselves from the group in order to pray/meditate in private. And, doing so can easily be misunderstood by others. Moreover, it can be extremely difficult for a youth to draw attention to themself by opting out of such a group activity, especially if they fear their Scoutmaster may disapprove.

[John-in-KC]

Hey Fred,

 

One other thing, and it's important: You pointed out a resource to us. It's something you've got a rep here on the board ... finding stuff and posting it for others.

 

That this resource in particular didn't sit well with many here doesn't invalidate your research or the advice you give on this board. I don't always comment, but I pretty generally look when you post something. You're a good man to have around Scouting, Mr Goodwin

 

Are you going to be at PTC this year during Relationships Week?