I do not get it...

[John-in-KC]

"Scoutmaster quietly reminds scouts during conferences of the scout spirit requiirement in most things scouting..."

 

Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life.

 

http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/life.aspx

 

I don't get it.

 

What part of everyday do we Scouters not understand about this Scout Spirit thing?

 

[ rant ]

It should be a Blinding Flash of the Intuitively Obvious to even the Casual Observer that a Boy Scout is to model the Scout Oath and Law when he's at a Scout meeting, camp, or activity.

 

It's the rest of the 24/7/365 that the words Scout Spirit come into play...

 

[ / rant ]

 

sigh

(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Gold Winger]

I've had similar conversations with parents. Johnny is arrested and the dad says, "This shouldn't effect advancement because it wasn't at a Scouting activity."

[gwd-scouter]

I think many Scouters simply disregard or don't care about the word "everyday" in that requirement. I'll even go so far as to say that I know of Scouters that don't even think much of the "living the Scout Oath and Law" part.

 

For instance, how many Scouters do you guys know that measure success in fulfilling that requirement with only two things: 1) a Scout wears his uniform properly and 2) attends X number percentage of Scout meetings and events.

 

Ditto the sigh...

[Gunny2862]

Or when they sign off on making a Scout eligible to be elected to the OA, when the Scout is clearly and constantly rude, unconcerned with authority of any kind, and appears to be unable to follow rules. Even, OMG AT a Scouting event.

 

How did this Scout get past the Scout Spirit requirement?

It's a mystery to me...

[GernBlansten]

Ever wonder why there is always controversy on Olympic Ice Skating results? American Idol? Iron Chef?

Its because they are subjective, not objective. Same is true with Scout Spirit. No objective method to measure it. Purely subjective and most of us cannot agree on how to measure it or much less, what it is.

[Eamonn]

Hi John-in-KC

Some time back our good friend OGE (At least I think it was him ??) posted a quote from some judge who was talking about pornography. It went something like "I don't know how to describe it, but I know it when I see it" (OGE - Please feel free to correct me if I have it wrong or if you didn't post it!!)

 

I kinda think part of our problem is that we want some kind of a yard stick that can measure Scout Spirit. As we all know there is no yard stick.

For many of us adults we have had time to work on what our values are and at times we see things in black and white.

We have things that we think are important and things that we see as being not so important.

For example I'm as a rule never late.

I think being late is rude and shows a lack of consideration to others.

But sometimes things don't go as they should and being late is unavoidable. When that happens I normally call and let people know what has happened and when I'll be where I'm supposed to be.

I have a good friend who is never late.

We were running late for a WB development weekend. He was driving, it was raining and he was driving like a lunatic (90 MPH on the PA Turnpike)

He was happy to disregard all the speed limits and traffic laws, because his value system put being on time first. (I closed my eyes and said a few Hail Mary's!)

 

As Scouters we are blessed to be able to work with young people.

We get to know them, watch them grow and develop. We hope that in some ways we play a part in helping them become good citizens and have the skills to be able to make sound and ethical choices and decisions.

The little Lad who crosses over from the Pack, struggles to learn the words of the Scout Law and Oath, at times maybe not really understanding what the words mean.

Scoutmasters see these Lads grow and get to know their strong points and weak points. Each and every Lad is different. I think we have all seen and worked with the "Bully" the "Joker" the shy kid, the Lad who is always late, the Lad who seems to have a hard time telling the truth, even when telling lies seems to be just silly. The list goes on.

For a while OJ had a really hard time saying no.

He would volunteer to do something and then someone else would ask him to do something and he'd agree to do that and then maybe something else would come along and he'd agree to do that as well.

Of course this didn't make him seem to be very Trustworthy and at times his loyalty was brought into question.

I really think that he didn't intend to do any harm, in fact part of the problem was that he was trying to please too many people -Just all at the same time.

We can help Scouts become aware of their shortcomings and maybe file off some of the rough edges?

I however believe that Boy Scouts are not "Little Angeles".

Doug Mc Phee, was a PL in the Troop. A great kid. He enjoyed Scouts and Scouting.

As long as things were in his book going well he was a good PL. Sadly when things weren't going as he'd like them to go he became a holy terror a real bully who liked to fight. He ruled his Patrol with an iron fist.

Over the years he did see that this wasn't the best way of doing things and he did become more kind and more understanding, but the temper was always there.

I spent a lot of time with Doug, we talked a lot about what he was doing and looked for better ways of going about getting things done.

He did work on his temper and was doing his best to live by the Scout Oath and Law.

At times he still failed.

But he was trying and he was doing his best.

It might be all too easy to say that he wasn't "Demonstrating Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life."

But in my book he came a long way and I was happy to have been of some help.

We need to look at each and every Scout as an individual, look at where he has been and where he is going.

While I'm all for us doing what we can to ensure that we remain an organization with values in the forefront, we do however need to remember that the youth we are working have values that might be different than ours and that their values are a work in progress.

Eamonn.

 

[John-in-KC]

E,

 

My issue is with folks who think the only place to show Scout Spirit is the Troop meeting or activity.

 

We're human, just like Doug. Lord knows EagleSon has seen me spike the temper, more than once. He also knows one of my watchphrases is "get mad, get over it."

 

I'd be delighted if we Scouters understand the concept of Scout Spirit to seek to live the Oath and Law 24/7/365 outside the Troop meeting place. That we should expect that in the meeting place is just that... a simple expectation.

[evmori]

John,

We have had people in these forums claim Scout Spirit doesn't include Troop meetings & other Scouting activities (which we are now unsure how to identify). They felt Scout Spirit was everyday life away from Scouting! Just the opposite of what is being discussed in this thread!

 

To me, it is everyday all day regardless of what you are doing.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn]

John,

I'll bet there are a good many Preachers, Priests and Ministers who have feelings akin to what you are talking about.

People who are happy to fill the pews but as soon as the service is over are just as happy to return to the maybe not so nice ways that they practice?

 

Some Scouts and their parents do view being a Scout in much the same light as belonging to a school club or maybe playing a sport?

I think it takes some time and a level of maturity to see the Oath and Law as being a way of life or a code to live by.

Like many things this understanding is a journey, along the way there are pitfalls and hazards.

Most of the youth we deal with in Scouting are very fortunate in having parents who care and adults who are willing to give freely of themselves.

While I have never in a million years seen myself as a hero!! I do hope that the youth I serve and have served do and have learned something from me.

My big hope of course is that they see and learn from the "Good Side" and are willing to get past, overlook and maybe forgive the "Bad-side".

Lord knows I'm not a saint. I do try to set as good as an example as I can for the youth who might look up to me.

I do hope they see me as a person who goes about things in a "Do as I do" not a "Do as I say" sort.

I hate it when a kid comes up to me with the old "But you said..."

As adults in this organization the youth we serve learn about Scout Spirit from us, not just at Scout meetings but they see how we treat our kids, they hear what we say about other people when we think they are not listening.

Most of all I think that they know how much we care about them as an individual and it is from us really caring that they respond.

There is no way we can pretend to care or pull the wool over their eyes. They know and do see us for what we are.

Eamonn.

[Kudu]

What we Scouters "don't get" is that Scout Spirit requirements for advancement are designed to keep adults in control of the program.

 

They are a product of the period of our history in which the BSA was outspoken in its hostility to Baden-Powell's Patrol System which put Patrol Leaders in charge of the Troop.

 

Scout Spirit is a catch-all wild card for Scouters who lack the true Spirit of Scouting. To paraphrase gwd-scouter, in actual practice we most often report using the requirement to punish Scouts for 1) not wearing the clown-colored 1980s indoor dress-designer Uniform and 2) not attending poorly-run meetings.

 

The "in your everyday life" bit reveals that we Americans have never bought into the idea that Scouting is a GAME.

 

Scout Spirit in daily life should be the Aim of the Ideals Method, not a stupid moralizing roadblock to the other Methods (Advancement, but also commonly the Outdoor Method and the so-called Leadership Development Method).

 

If a Scout gets arrested in his daily life then the game is not working for that particular Scout. Do we punish boys in other games for their lack of "sportsmanship" in their daily lives off the playing field?

 

The inventor of Scouting put hooligans in charge of Patrols because they have the raw talent for his radical boy-run program.

 

If you want to dabble in Scout Spirit, use the requirement to measure the Scout's UNDERSTANDING of Scout Spirit. One such tool is The Scout Spirit Scavenger Hunt:

 

http://www.usscouts.org/advance/docs/spirit.asp

 

Kudu