Camporee scoring

[kahits]

Having just finished the second Spring camporee under the organization of the same troop, I have a question on how your district camporees are run. As I said, it has been the same troop doing the organization and running of the event, with the same outcome. The host troop has won it for the 2nd time in two years. Being the Chapter Adviser, I have some concerns about the long term effects of this kind of system, particularly as it relates to our ability to get the units to commit to attending camporee, so we can tap out their youth and adults. The current organization results in a single troop being designated the winner of the event, with places awarded for the other troops, and the individual stations. How do you do the scoring for your events, and how common is it to have; first of all, the host unit competing and winning 9 out of 10 stations, hence running away with the event, and; having a scoring system that awards one award to one unit, only, as the winner? We lost one unit that went elsewhere, after last years results, and I am concerned that we will lose more, which will effect my ability to rebuild the OA chapter. I agree competition is not a bad thing, but when one unit is given bragging rights, I am a little concerned it might have an effect on the youth coming together in the chapter as brothers. I might be overly concerned with this, but I know there are issues with some units and I have to ask if this is where we should be going with his important Spring event?

[John-in-KC]

Kahits,

 

The best Camporees I've seen, have had one or more of the following for competition:

 

1) Compete by Patrols, not Troops.

 

2) 3 age brackets for patrols: NSPs, younger division (majority 11-14), and older division (majority 15-17).

 

3) DISQUALIFICATION stations: Events where EVERY MEMBER of the patrol must participate, or the Patrol is disqualified from prizes.

 

4) Host Troop out of competition: Host Troop got something special for being the host, but their patrols were not prize-eligible.

[Stosh]

How can a troop host a camporee and still win when if it's boy run they are ones running the stations? Sounds like the host troop isn't doing much hosting and leaving it up to the troop adults to run the camporee. Of course when dads' are doing the judging, the host troop will always win. Doesn't sound much like boy-led, patrol-method to me.

 

Stosh

[CA_Scouter]

We hosted camporee last year, doing a mix of scout-run and adult run events. The scouts, however, chose all the competitions, came up with the scoring sheets, and compiled the results after the events were completed. ( They planned the campfire program also but the dam broke that night and washed it out. ) We had two of our three patrols compete with the third running a couple of events.

 

We asked for adults from other troops to run/score the events. This would mitigate some of Jblakes concerns about the judging. We also had more timed events, rather than judged events ( pancake toss, log hoist, relay race, string burn, peanut butter pit, etc. ). Our council also provides awards to individual patrols - there is no overall winning troop.

 

We had one patrol last year sweep most of the events, but that was a patrol of mostly older scouts in upper ranks... not much you can do about that.. .they competed fairly and did a good job. You'll always find inequities like that... on another note, a Webelos group showed up and placed 3rd in one of the events ( there were 22 patrols in competition ).

 

Ya gotta get patrol competitions to be the prize. No troop prizes.

 

[eagle97_78]

kahits,

 

There are a few different ways that a dirtrict camporee can be put on:

 

1) A troop does all the planning and you get the effects that you are currently seeing.

 

2) A group of people on the district committee do all the planning

 

3) The District Program Chariman pulls together a group of adult leader's from the district and a few units and has a lagre committee to plan the camporee.

 

To go along with all of this there is actually some literature that is out there that talks about planning a camporee also. Here are just a few ways that a camporee can be planned. In my opinion the last two ways seem to be the best ways to deal with all the problems that can arrive when it comes down to favoritism.

[kahits]

In talking with the DE, almost every station was run by either a leader from another troop, or outside consultants. There were some internal logistics that involved his own adult leaders, and one in particular is the one with the funds to rent generator floodlights, and other things. All that needed to be done was to remove his troop name from the leader guide, and it was fine. He has been since put on the District committee as activities chair, so this is really more his job, then something to promote his troop with. My concern was units going elsewhere, because they didn't think it was a fair event, and as Chapter adviser, I need all of our units to come to camporee for tapout, which won't happen if they feel it wasn't fair, and decided to attend one of the other districts' camporees. All that being said, it was a great event with one of the best tapouts in a long time, but for those units that endured a day and a half of stations, only to find out the same patrol won as last year, I know I would have had a thought or two go thru my mind. He knows it has to be all done in a day, next time, and that's a start.(This message has been edited by kahits)

[MarkS]

Keeping score is not a prerequisite for a great camporee.

 

In my district the O/A chapter organizes and executes our camporees. Not a single unit.

 

I don't recall ever seeing a "troop" win a top score at one of our camporees. The boys supervising each game station present an award to the "patrol" that performed best at their station. For example, the patrol that had the fastest time at the one-handed knot tying station would win a scrap piece of rope with a square knot in it. The team that had the most bullseyes at the sling shot station got to take home the left over bag of lima bean ammunition.

 

Each patrol would also win ribbons based on their overall performance such as Chief, Medicine Man, and Brave.

[kahits]

Thanks, Mark. My chapter (My son and I were just new to the troop) ran camporee, 2 years ago, and because it was so hot and dry that year, they decided to do it starting at 10pm, Friday night. Your start time depended on when you arrived and checked in (We got a 10:20pm start time). The first event was steal the bacon, with a soccer ball with glow sticks taped onto it. I'll never forget the sounds of kids tackling each other in the dark, seeing only the glow sticks. Some groups didn't start until 1am, and didn't finish until 4am, but they had until noon to sleep in on Saturday. The tapout was at 3pm, and the LDS units left soon after that. For the rest of the units, the chapter challenged everyone to a game of capture the flag. It was a massive undertaking, in which the chapter reigned supreme. It was a more basic event then what we now have, and it still sticks in my mind as the one that was the most fun. Talk about the ultimate stay up late adventure!

[OldGreyEagle]

Well if a Webelos group can show up and place third, I guess so much for Webelos not participating in Camporees, if they can place, they should participate.

 

The Camporees in the Disitrct I serve are pretty much run by the District Troops. By that I mean there is a host Troop. They decide theme and location, and arrange for the privies and water if need be and EMS services. Get the permits if required or reservations. They coordinate the stations with the other troops but the other troops contribute 50% to the camporee. There are a few troops that always place high in the camporee, well their patrols do. It is a patrol compettion. THen again, the patrols that do well obviously know their stuff and have the skills.

 

The host troop should be thinking its good to win, but when you chase everyone else away, what have you won?

[infoscouter]

I just attended our district's Spring Camporee this weekend. This was one of the most unusual events I've seen. The theme was Lord of the Rings, so all 380+ Scouts attending were formed into groups of 9 (fellowships). Ideally, no fellowship included two Scouts from the same unit, but that wasn't always possible. Every fellowship had a mix of ages and ranks, so no group was handicapped by being all young kids or advantaged by being all older Scouts.

 

Scoring was *primarily* based on how the fellowships showed leadership, cooperation, teamwork, problem solving and other 'soft' skills. There were some points for proficiency, but the importants aspects of the events were not competence in traditional Scout Skills, but in the factors cited above. Each event included a staff-led reflection, which was also scored.

 

Since each fellowship was made up of Scouts from multiple troops, no troop _could_ have won. In fact, no ribbons were given at all. Winners of the individual events were announced, but that was all.

 

The camporee was uniformly rated very highly by the Scouts - why? Because it was challenging and interesting and fun!

[kb6jra]

Ok, I'm going to put on my bragging hat:

One of my patrols has won "honor patrol" 3 of the last 5 years. Not the same patrol each time, but typically our regular scout patrol of 13 year olds, 1st class or better...

 

We don't host the Camporee ever, we do lots of other things in the district. We do take advantage of the information put out by the Camporee Chief prior to the event and we make sure the boys are aware of what the competitions are so they can prepare.

 

Our district camporees have been a mixed bag of mediocre to excellent in the past 7 years. The first camporee I attended for this troop, there was one troop hosting, and they made up all of the rules and the 'hows and whys' of the competitions. Each competition was run by another unit, but which wasn't determined until the night before the event. Also, the competitions weren't announced ahead of time. This gave the host unit a real advantage in that they knew what the competitions were and nobody else really did.

 

Lately the host unit has sent out packets of info, usually via email, to every Scoutmaster and SPL in the District. The information is available two months in advance and gives each unit time to plan their instructions around the skills needed for the camporee. The only talk I need to give the boys is about teamwork and the patrol method, which turns out one of the main reasons we get such high marks year after year.

 

Kahits, I think the specter of impropriety may keep some units from returning to the game until the host is changed out. I've seen that happen in other districts in our council and it's a real bummer. If you think that a poorly attended camporee will affect your chapter negatively, then maybe you should consider having the chapter host the camporee. I've seen very creative camporees hosted by an OA Chapter and they turn out great, and it's a great way to promote the chapter to potential and current inactive arrowmen.

 

Good luck.

[anarchist]

Kahits,

 

Sorry in advance for the long post but something about this thread gets under my skin!

 

Gosh sometimes you can't do anything right...a troop hosts a couple of camporees and the boys in that troop take it seriously and end up winning and somehow they are percieved to be dishonest or the fix is in (in someway). Is what I am getting from this post?

 

First in my experience most troops do not "jump" at hosting a camporee...Our District offers three camporees every year (Fall, Winter, and Spring)and the extra work and planning turns most units off. Usually the district starts begging and arm twisting trying to get some poor unit to raise its hand. Our troop has run two camporees in the last few years , both, after the original volunteer troop ended up backing out for some reason or the other...(at least that was the districts story and they were sticking to it)! In both of these we followed district norms and "drafted or shanghied" other units to provide the bulk of the station operators and graders...

 

We planned, set up the stations and ran our share of stations but other units also did their part...(In our district we give points for providing station helpers). District decides (and supplies) what prizes to award and the troop-patrol participation rules as well as grading criteria.

 

And interestingly enough, both camporees were "won" by patrols from our troop. The fact is that we have several groups of highly competitive, skillful,(anal retentive?) boys who take pride in blowing away the competion...in whatever event in which they participate. Be it capture the flag, fire building, first aid, lashing, map and compass work, cooking...whatever they strive to win. Patrols from our troop "win" about half of the camporees we attend that have graded competions...is that our scouts fault?

 

WE find that if the camporee is well planned and executed and the subject/theme is interesting units will attend. Heck our PLC has been known to nix attendance based on what unit or leader is running the show...some units put so little effort into the event that everything seems to be operated by the seat of the pants or blind luck. At one event four years ago we rolled into the campground 5 minutes before the operator was to "close down and lock the gates" it seems that the organizer had not booked the campsite...if we had not gotten there early they would have closed and the camporee would have been cancelled...(organizer showed up an hour later) At the cracker barrel it was determined that no troops had been asked to help and the SPLs were dragooned into appointing patrols that night to run the stations!

 

Some years we miss a couple of camporees because district (unable to get its act together) waited too long to get schedules of camporees out and the boys had planned their own activities for the particular weekend. Last year we missed Spring Camporee cause we had won the lottery for McMillan Woods at Gettysburg for the same weekend...no contest! The better District planning is the better camporees work.

 

For some reason, (the PLC maybe?) competitions seem to motivate the boys to take the pre-camporee information and boil it down to weekly practice sessions and training drills. When our boys hit the ground, they really want to do their best...last year our NSP blew everyone out of the water with its camp-site gateway..even our older patrols! They just wanted to win and came up with a supper design and even embellished it in the making.

 

And Kahits, I hope you are not suggesting a unit "throw" a competition or even not take part because they do the hard work??? As to the unit of sore sports (than went elsewhere cause they didn't win...) If that was the real reason...if they are that fragile- that's their problem and its sad that they never learned to lose -that too is part of life.

 

As to the ablity to rebuild your OA chapter...In your position, I would hardly want to go camping (which I believe is one of the "offered" criteria for being elected to OA) with a boy so immature or so petty that losing to another troop in a district camporee would keep him from being active...(please give me a break!) We have boys from different high schools who will tear each others heads off on friday night on the high school football fields who are in the same patrol... let alone being arrowmen!

 

Your ability to forge a strong chapter will rest on the ability to enlist good scouts to whom OA means more than paying dues and getting to wear another sash...which sadly is what OA means to many "arrowmen" these days.

 

I would think if other units have issues with winning or losing, then your Scoutmasters need to bump up their scoutmaster minutes on fairness, hard work, sportsmanship and building character!

 

sorry if this seems too blunt!

Anarchist