How to handle inappropriate adult actions

[Beavah]

Continuin' the habit of spinning off discussions or critiques from novice questions, BW in the parent thread raised a different question in terms of how to handle an inappropriate adult question at a BOR. Seems like that's a good topic in general, eh?

 

BobWhite suggested askin' for a recess and addressin' the matter with the scout out of the room. That's a fine technique, and I've used it myself once or twice. Usually only when things had run pretty far off the rails, eh? I'd tend to reserve it for the last step before ending the BOR.

 

I think in workin' with adults we should use the same gentle touch, kindness, and respect we use with the scouts, eh? Here's some other approaches and techniques for the arsenal:

 

Be Humble. Trust the person knows the boy, the program, or the technique he/she is usin' better than you do, and see where it ends up. Yeh may learn something.

 

Wait. Let the lad(s) run with it. If we've done a good job helpin' kids grow in our program, they can handle curveballs or screwballs without us steppin' in. I've never been prouder of lads than when they pulled an adult aside to deal with a behavior.

 

Introduce humor. Lightening the mood can help a lot, while gently steering things differently. Add to the "Who are you votin' for?" question with a wry comment like " 'None of the above' is an OK answer!"

 

Support da adult, then tack on a little explanation, that both steers things and educates the adult. "Mr. Jones asked a great question, something that all da adults here are thinkin' about themselves. We don't care who you answer, but we want to know the why - as a good citizen, what do you think is important in choosing who or what to vote for?"

 

Let it go, then clean up later. Stoppin' things calls everyone's attention to the adult, and that can be counterproductive and embarrassin'. Lots of things aren't nails, we shouldn't hit 'em with a hammer, eh? Talk to the adult in a friendly, private way afterward; do the same with any of the kids who need support or reassurance.

 

Give the adult space. Doesn't really apply to da BOR example, but sometimes it can help just to call the kids away from the adult for "an important task". A little time to calm down and regain perspective can do any of us a world of good sometimes, eh?

 

Run interference. Task out a scout or another adult to occupy the attention of the adult behavin' inappropriately with a new "important task" or a cup of coffee. Let them steer things in the right direction.

 

I expect there's a bunch of others, eh?

 

What tricks and techniques do others have to share for handlin' the occasional adult wanderin' afield?

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[packsaddle]

Yeah, in the parent thread I could see how the question was asked could make a big difference in its effect on the boy. The parent question would have worked better if it had been, "Are you going to vote in November?" rather than, "Who are you going to vote for?".

 

To your list I would add:

Try to find adults who make good BOR members, in order to avoid having to do any of the other things on your list.

 

But for this thread, I have one question and one comment, somewhat related. The question: Are there objective criteria that identify whether or not an adult action is 'appropriate'?

Of course some adult actions are clearly inappropriate...I'm asking about the gray areas. For example, what Beavah thinks is within bounds might be viewed as out of bounds by Bob White (but this is purely hypothetical, of course).

It is my observation that even the homogeneous personalities of these forums sometimes have different opinions about what actions (or BOR questions) are appropriate. I could be wrong but I suspect a significant element of subjectivity for most of us.

[evmori]

I think we need to define what is an inappropriate question. Asking a Scout the question in question isn't inappropriate in my opinion.

[Stosh]

I'm going to agree with evmori. I don't think the question is inapproopriate and I do question how BOR's are going to go about avoiding people who others might think inappropriate. In this day and age of political correctness, and supposedly diversity sensitivity, I see many areas of growing intolerance of others and what others might think, say or do.

 

Unless the BOR's are going to be staffed by like-minded people, all thinking in the same veins, there's always going to be differences of opinions on what's appropriate and what is not. If carried to the end, this thread idea can easily result in BOR's consisting of a single person.

 

The forum has had a long-running thread about asking God questions at a BOR, now political questions. Before long the Boards will not be able to ask any citizenship and/or ethical/moral questions to the boys. As a result one will pull out two of the major foundation blocks of Scouting.

 

This is a slippery slope that BSA may not wish to pursue, nor should individual councils/troops.

 

Stosh

[Bob White]

Consider this. How about asking questions that are directly related to the relements of scouting.

 

Who a person chooses to vote for is a private matter and unrelated to scouting. Doing ones duty to his country is an element of scouting, and asking the scout about how he sees himself doing that as an adult is an open ended question that allows the scout a chance to give a more thoughtful answer that will give you more insight into his character.

 

When adults act inappropriately with scouts, whether in actions or questions, I would hope more skilled adult leaders would step in and perform their responsibility to protect the scout. Redirect or remove the adult with the inappropriate behavior. The time to stop the inapproriate behavior is at the moment it happens. The time to counsel or correct the offender is privately, away from the Scouts.

 

Of course the BEST thing to do is to do a better job of selecting and training your unit leaders so that this issue does not arise.

[John-in-KC]

Excuse me?

 

Direct hard hitting questions of someone who will momentarily be an adult is inappropriate? BALONEY.

 

I would hope any BOR, be it Tenderfoot or 2d Silver Palm, is looking at the young man as a whole person and considering his maturity and maturation before it goes into session with him. I would hope the SM has talked with the Board about any areas where the young man needs less probing, perhaps even sympathetic and empathetic questions. I'd also hope he's told the Board areas where they can go for broke.

 

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B, to your specific question, getting the leader in question into an up close and personal two-deep environment, where others can model behavior, and keep the Scout out of the line of fire, is a technique I've used more than once.

[Eagledad]

>>Consider this. How about asking questions that are directly related to the relements of scouting.

[Stosh]

Ok, what part of an Eagle's "personal" life isn't covered by one of the 12 points of the Scout Law?

 

If I ever serve on a BOR and am told I cannot ask anything other than knots, first aid and building fires, I will decline. I have more important things to do with my time than waste it in that forum. Just have him tie a square knot, hand him his medal and let's quit worrying about whether or not he's qualified to be an Eagle.

 

Stosh

[scoutldr]

Barry, your minister is quoting Curly from the movie "City Slickers."...

 

The only inappropriate question I ever heard in an EBOR was when the Troop CC asked the Scout, "Tell us about your sex life."

[Bob White]

"How about asking the Scout to tie a knot?"

That would be as inappropriate as asking the scout to reveal how is is going to vote in a secret ballot election.

Sorry Barry, I thought you knew that you cannot retest.

 

Instead how about asking the scout about the knots he has learned, and how he has applied them in real life situations?

 

That will give you far more information about the scout than watching him tie a knot that even some of the board members cannot do correctly if at all.

 

Jblake, who ever said you cannot ask about things other than knots of firebuilding? You have the Oath and Law to discuss don't you? You have his leadership experiences to discuss don't you? You have his project to review don't you? How about his future goals?

 

It would seem you have plenty of available ground to cover before you make time for inappropriate qurestions like having him tell you what he plans to do in the privacy of a voting booth.

 

Why not talk about those things? Before you know it the board will have actually learned scouting related things about the scout and his 30 minutes will be up and you never need to get to the inappropriate questions.

 

While they may frustrate the adult at least it does the right thing by the Scout.

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Eagledad]

>>"How about asking the Scout to tie a knot?"

 

No kidding Robert, really! And after all your lectures. I must have been doing that scouting stuff.

 

Please continue because we need your last word before we can move on.

 

Barry

[Trevorum]

[in my Ronald Reagan voice:] Well now, this started as an interesting thread by Beavah, but - there you go again - heh, heh, heh.

 

 

Ahem; back to the point. Beav, when I was on committee, I saw the recess used twice to get around a delicate issue. One was when a board member (who should have known better) did not realize that a scout could advance to 2nd Class and 1st Class simultaneously and nearly called the Scout on fraud. In that case, your other tacks (humble; wait; humor; support the adult; let it go) would not have worked. We needed to correct this erroneous information in order to allow the BoR to proceed. However, I can see those strategies working in other, less formal, situations.

[packsaddle]

Trev, the tremor you feel next might be someone rolling over in his grave.

With one exceptional case which transcends anything I've ever seen discussed in these threads, we've never had unresolvable problems at our BORs. And I think this is because the adults respected each other as well as the boys. And we all knew the boys fairly well. AND...the SM has done a fairly good job of making sure they were ready for the review.

But that one case was something to behold. The entire leadership (with one exception, me) had made up their minds NOT to allow the boy to advance to Eagle even though he had completed all the requirements. It went to our familiar discussion of "adding to the requirements" and 'scout spirit' and he had not met their standards (they were unable to articulate what those standards were, only that he hadn't met them).

 

A meeting with him was called in order to have a kangaroo court (my description) and the boy stood alone in front of a room full of adult antagonists. I had lobbied every one of them NOT to have that meeting and tried to explain how it violated so many things I hardly knew where to begin. I was the only adult that was an advocate for the boy and the very idea that the meeting was being forced on the boy nearly popped my cork. But by the end of the meeting, employing some of the tools mentioned by Beavah, the room only had one antagonist remaining...I had persuaded the rest away from the 'dark side'. The boy went on to Eagle. Not, I think, our best day but at least the boy made it through.

 

That was long ago and in retrospect, training (Bob White's great admonition) could have gone a long way toward avoiding that situation. Trained adults would have had greater understanding of the program and its methods. But that was long ago and the group is much more mature...and trained.

[evmori]

Consider this. How about asking questions that are directly related to the relements of scouting.

 

Always thought citizenship was part of Scouting. We have some merit badges dealing with that subject, don't we?

 

Who a person chooses to vote for is a private matter and unrelated to scouting.

 

Sure it's a private matter. But it is related to Scouting. Citizenship.

 

Doing ones duty to his country is an element of scouting, and asking the scout about how he sees himself doing that as an adult is an open ended question that allows the scout a chance to give a more thoughtful answer that will give you more insight into his character.

 

And asking a Scout why he will be voting for a particular individual would be an example of such an open-ended question.

 

When adults act inappropriately with scouts, whether in actions or questions, I would hope more skilled adult leaders would step in and perform their responsibility to protect the scout. Redirect or remove the adult with the inappropriate behavior. The time to stop the inapproriate behavior is at the moment it happens. The time to counsel or correct the offender is privately, away from the Scouts.

 

What was inappropriate?

 

Of course the BEST thing to do is to do a better job of selecting and training your unit leaders so that this issue does not arise.

 

I would agree selecting & having trained unit leaders very important.

 

So, who ya gonna vote for Bob?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

The act of voting is related to citizenship. The choice of who one votes for is not.

 

As far as who I am voting for...that is a personal matter protected by the laws of our nation, and to ask that is rude and shows a lack of knowledge of our country's history and electoral process. I am sorry you were not raised with better manners.

 

I would hope that members of a board of review would show better judgement and courtesy when when dealing with the scout.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)