A game with a purpose.

[Kudu]

To be accurate, we need to know who first said it and coined it, and when and where.

 

It was not "first said," it evolved in written publications as detailed above.

 

According to the 1936 Handbook for Scoutmasters (3rd edition) Forward by Elbert K. Fretwell, BSA Chief Scout Executive, "The manuscript was written and researched conducted by Mr. William Hillcourt, Assistant to the Director of Publications."

 

Therefore, the burden of proof is on anyone who puts quotes around "Scouting is a Game with a Purpose" and attributes it to Baden-Powell.

 

In most of the world that is the standard of scholarship expected from every 6th grader.

 

As far as I can tell "Scouting is a Game with a Purpose" is first attributed to B-P in the introduction to the old "Scoutmastership Fundamentals" course outline. One of the senior executives at BSA HQ arranged for me to talk to their manuscript department so that I could track down that author and ask him where he came up with the quote.

 

In the course of an afternoon of calls and call-backs the head of the department finally reported that she could not find the manuscript and asked "Just who is this Mr. Powell, and why is he so important?"

 

Kudu

 

 

[Miki101]

I guess that I'm in the minority because I have a fundamental problem with incorrectly attributing words to anyone. As Gonzo points out, maybe BP said it to Hillcourt. Point is that BP didn't WRITE them down and publicize it in this case...Hillcourt did..so those words should be attributed to Green Bar Bill.

 

When I write my books or Scouting history articles for the ISCA JOURNAL, I deal with facts. I cannot go off and incorrectly quote someone or give a "fact" that I have been told (and ultimately confirmed) is wrong. That kind of mistake will always get found and, therefore, I - and my work - will lose credibility. And when someone quotes my work, I expect to be cited and not plagiarized, the latter of which I sadly have found sometimes to be the case.

 

Elsewhere, I have spent hundreds of hours reasearching my Theodore Roosevelt and Scouting book, which involved reading and digesting thousands of source pages. From them I had to ACCURATELY repeat, edit for wordiness, and place TR's thoughts into the values of Scouting. If I went off and simply "came close" to getting a quote right, I will get lots of nasty e-mails from those who DO care about accuracy. Nobody's perfect but I try very hard to be accurate in my work.

 

So, if you have the good fortune to know that someone has been misquoted, then do your part a CORRECT the mistake. Case in point, for those of you who haven't studied Eleanor Roosevelt, there is a poem called "Footprints in your Heart" that is attributed to her. Problem is that she didn't author it. No one knows who did but if your google it, it's "definitively" ER's. How do I know, one phone call to the right place can quickly reveal a perpetual myth by people who simply take a thing at face value without asking questions or, on the other hand, simply don't care. And when school children research ER, they'll innocently quote it because "it can't be wrong if it's on the internet" and the lie will live on. That's the problem.

 

So, if we all try to be accurate, the better off we'll be in the long run. As for allangr1024's intial query, please give Green Bar Bill Hillcourt his rightful credit due.

 

David C. Scott

 

 

 

 

[Eamonn]

OK, I know I'm a lazy toad!!

Most times when I don't know who said what, I tend to not say who said it.

Yes call me "A dirty rat" But did James Cagney ever say it? I don't really know?

How many of the greatest speeches ever made are attributed to the person who made the speech, not the guy who wrote the words?

But I do think if we are going to say who said what? We do need to get it right.

I don't want to put the old fellow down, but while BP did a fair job with his writings, I have to say after hearing a few of his speeches he wasn't the worlds greatest orators!!

I enjoy the speeches that our boy Winston Churchill over BP any-day!!

Eamonn