A game with a purpose.

[allangr1024]

I am putting together a brochure for our troop, and would like to quote the phrase "a game with a purpose." I see this quoted on web sites and attributed to Baden Powell.

 

I could not find it in "Aids to Scoutmastership". I did find this: "SCOUTING IS A GAME for boys, under the

leadership of boys, in which elder brothers can give their

younger brothers healthy environment and encourage

them to healthy activities such as will help them to

develop CITIZENSHIP." Not quite as consise.

 

Does anyone have a reference to Baden Powell for my original quote. Or any other literature that would look good for my brochure?

 

Thanks.

[Eamonn]

"I am putting together a brochure for our troop."

 

"Or any other literature that would look good for my brochure? "

What is the purpose of the brochure?

Who is it aimed at?

Does it really matter who said what?

Ea

[allangr1024]

It is for a recruiting drive for the troop, in conjuntion with a troop open house. I have some stuff about the values of scouting, for the parents, and some photo's of the boys on campouts to give boys a sense of the fun activities we do.

 

I like the phrase, but would hate to misquote, even though I think that if Baden Powell did not say it, he would have if he were here. Of course he would have called it a "Jolly" game at that.

[BrentAllen]

BSA literature quotes it to Baden-Powell. One poster here will be quick to argue the point, though I don't know why. The phrase is very prominent in Fifth Edition (1957) Scoutmaster Handbook, which I believe was primarily authored by Bill Hillcourt. He worked closely with BP, so he most likely either heard it from BP, or coined it himself. You can source the quote to the SM Handbook, if you are afraid someone will give you a hard time about it. I can't imagine why anyone would.

[Miki101]

You cannot find it because baden-Powell did not say it was "a game with a purpose," Hillcourt did. What Baden-Powell did was "Scouting is a game not a science." I can source that for you when I can get into my archive next week.

 

David C. Scott

[FScouter]

It's an interesting quote regardless of who said it. But I seriously doubt putting it in a brochure is going to entice any boy to join, particularly if he thinks there is some kind of "purpose". You may as well tell the kid we're going to improve his moral character.

[Eamonn]

While I'm overjoyed to see anyone do anything that will bring in more Scouts/youth!!

I really think that allangr1024 is to be commended for what he (She?) is doing.

 

I do however agree with FScouter.

Youth join an organization for the fellowship (Hanging out with their pals!) Fun and Adventure. Selling them "A Purpose"? I'm not so sure about.

I'm not so sure that parents are "Sold" on Scouts and Scouting because it will in some way make their kid a better kid.

I of course think that some kids do become better for having been in Scouting and there are lots of benefits.

But talking as a parent. When my kid wanted to do something? I looked at the risk involved and how much it was going to cost me!

When he wanted to be involved in sports or the school play I was happy to allow him to do so.

Mainly because it was what he wanted to do.

Sure he got something out of being in the school plays and being involved in sports, but the first thing was that it was something that he wanted to do.

I know that at this time, I'm not happy with the way we market Scouting and I have a bit of a down on what seems to me to be too much empathize on the values.

This stuff works well when we try and inspire members of th BSA to go out and do some recruiting.

I really like the "We have to put the youth in Scouting before we can put the values of Scouting in the youth"

But if I were a kid that would be lost on me!

While the "A game with a purpose." might be good for training's I'm not so sure I'd use it for recruiting.

Of course that's just the opinion of one!

Eamonn.

 

 

[allangr1024]

Thanks for the comments.

 

My brochure is mostly pictures of our scouts doing things on campouts in the past year. That is my pitch to boys. We have fun. The back page was intended to be for parents, and I list the scout oath and law under the title, "A Game with a Purpose" and reference Baden Powell/founder of scouting with the quote. (not essential, I know.)

 

One of the things I was not trained in was recruiting new youth for the troop. Woodbadge, taken prior to "21st century" did not address it. I became SM last year, with a troop of 20 boys. We are now at 16 registered, 8 active but not always present, most over 14, and I think we need 10 new guys to insure the vitality of the troop. Past district chairmen told our troop to go get webelos at their AOL ceremony. When I talked to cub masters, I found that other troops had already made their pitches, and most webelos had already choosen a troop.

 

One guy at our roundtable was sucessful doing a troop open house, and I am using his ideas to plan one for us. The targets will be fifth graders in general, not just webelos. I have our district director committed to passing out flyers at the school, and I am trying to get the youth pastor of the church we meet in to let me make a pitch to his boys.

 

It is sales work. I know that some committee person ought to head it up, but we are lacking in that area. District support comes to those who make the most noise. I think I have a good program, but I need the boys.

 

[Kudu]

Allangr1024, you are to be commended on going the extra mile to verify something before repeating it. Too often in today's culture we believe that the ends justify the means. This is true even in Scouting, where we should value trustworthiness in all things, no matter how small.

 

Eamonn and FScouter are correct: The quote was intended for Scoutmasters.

 

You can see the wording of "Scouting is a Game with a Purpose" develop over time in the BSA handbooks. It started when William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt first added the idea of Scouting as a "purposeful" game to the third edition of the BSA's Handbook for Scoutmasters where he paraphrased that Baden-Powell quote that you found:

 

"Here, then, is Scouting in a nutshell: A game for boys under the leadership of boys with the wise guidance and counsel of a grown-up who has still the enthusiasm of youth in him. A purposeful game, but a game just the same, a game that develops character by practice, that trains for citizenship--through experience in the out-of-doors" [emphasis in the original].

 

Hillcourt then refined this idea as one of the "Ten Essentials of Scoutmastership:"

 

"A realization that to the boys Scouting is a game--to you, a game with a purpose: Character building and Citizenship training."

 

In the fourth and fifth editions of Handbook for Scoutmasters the idea appears under the heading "Scouting is a Game":

 

"Yes, to a boy Scouting is a game--a wonderful game, full of play and full of laughter, keeping him busy, keeping him happy. Scouting is 'learning by doing' things that are enjoyable--exciting things!

 

"That's the strength of Scouting! A boy becomes a Scout for the sheer joy there is in it:

 

"To you and me Scouting is a game, also--but it is more than game of fun. To us, it is a game with a purpose--the purpose of helping boys to become men by training them for citizenship.

 

"Training for citizenship--that's the aim of Scouting " [emphasis in original].

 

On page 13, the words that appear in boldface type on page 12 (above) were excerpted as a heading for four photographs in the form we are familiar with today: Scouting is a Game with a Purpose. The problem with this shortened version is that (to paraphrase Eamonn), it places too much emphasis on the "purpose."

 

See:

 

http://inquiry.net/ideals/scouting_game_purpose.htm

 

allangr1024 writes:

 

It is sales work. I know that some committee person ought to head it up, but we are lacking in that area.

 

Nah, make the pitch yourself and do it in person, not through fliers.

 

Start with the youth in the church where you meet. My experience in using the presentation below is that 2/3 - 3/4 of all sixth grade boys want to join Scouts if you pitch Scouting as guns, arrows, matches, knives, rattlesnakes, bears, and learning all the first aid skills they need to be a hero some day.

 

In other words: Pitch the "Game" not the "Purpose"!

 

See:

 

http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm

 

Kudu

 

 

[fgoodwin]

allangr1024: Rick beat me to it, but his website has some great suggestions for how to do Boy Scout recruiting in the schools.

 

He targets sixth graders (that's middle school in Texas) but I'm sure it can be adapted for fifth graders (last year of elementary school here).

 

Good luck, and please come back and let us know how it went.

[Gonzo1]

Who really cares who said it 'originally', it's a quote for a troop brochure. Big deal. type it, print it. I doubt seriously any of us will see it and I doubt any who does see it will question you whether B-P or Hillcourt said it. it is still "A game with a purpose" regardless of who said it first. Maybe B-P said it to Hillcourt and Hillcourt wrote it down first.

 

 

[Kudu]

Yeah, who really cares?

 

Will anybody notice? Even if they do, who is going to say anything?

 

Sounds like the makings of a great Scoutmaster Minute.

[ozemu]

allangr1024 may I suggest you get that brochure stapled to school newsletters if possible. Parents read those - in fact look for them and ask for them. Way more effective than a letter box drop, more widespread than handing them to the converted at a display and cheaper than newspaper ads - more effective too. In my experience they recruit Cubs but not Scouts. In my system that eventually pays dividends anyway - you've just got to wait a few years.

 

Kudu, I care. And again thanks for your work.

[BrentAllen]

Kudu,

Since you care as much as you do, please cite the quote. The information you provided so far is not sufficient. Hillcourt did not create all the material in the BS HB, and I believe there was a team of authors. To be accurate, we need to know who first said it and coined it, and when and where.

[ozemu]

I think that Kudu's weblink explains the difficulty of citing to an individual. Seems the phrase was first used as a caption. Who edited? Probably that person should be credited in joining two phrases by someone else in the preceeding page when they were explaining the theory originated by others.

 

Kudo cites the text. The rest might be impossible.

 

However I care enough to suggest credit (using Kudu's www) to Harcourt et al, fourth and fifth editions of the Boy Scouts of America's Handbook for Scoutmasters, "Scouting is a Game" on page 12 , referring to Harcourt et al, "Chat 2," "The Game of Scouting," on page 24 of the Boy Scouts of America's third edition of Handbook for Scoutmasters in 1936, written by William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt and "Ten Essentials of Scoutmastership" on page 125 of the same text, previously suggested by Baden-Powell (and his editor - just in case)in Aids to Scoutmastership.

 

Then again Olive may have used it off-hand in the presence of Bill over tea and scones in the absence of BP entirely as he was fond of walks and taken to being outside when others were inside.

 

That's a bit cheeky I know - it's a long weekend and I am making the most of the first night before studying and doing chores for the remainer. Dreary, dreary. Thanks for lightening my night.