Webelos & Bears Camping @ Camporee

[evmori]

It never "changed" ed. The character of a matter does not change when one discovers the truth. Rather, one becomes enlighted.

 

It is my understanding it has "changed". If it hasn't, why can Webelos no longer participate in Boy Scout camporees? Enlighten me, please!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

This may be a semantical debate, and I would not want to be anti-semantical, but here goes.

 

Ed, Webelos cannot participate in a Boy Scout Camporee for the same reason that we don't count (well many of us) requirements done as a Cub Scout for Boy Scouts. That said, it should be obvious that Webelos can't participate in Boy Scout Camporees because they are not Boy Scouts, I think most will agree with me there. Why would a Den of Webelos be set in competiton against Boy Scouts in skill competitions that they have not learned?

 

OK, now, I used the word "Participate" meaning that the Webelos would function as a patrol and compete in the skills. There may be some who say, why not let the Cubs try out the stations, and not count their score, its just an introduction to Boy Scouts and let the boys see what cool things they can do. To me, the draw back is if the stations as challenging to the Scouts, woudl not the tasks seem daunting to the Webelos? If they aren't, time to upgrade your camporee stations.

 

Now, if the schedule calls for the Webelos to walk around the stations and observe the stations with Boy Scouts in them, I can see that. Maybe have a few stations set up with age appropriate skill demonstrations. Have the Webleos compete against each other, how does that sound? Like maybe you should have a Webelos Camporee of its own.

 

Maybe it's a question of what Participates means versus Camping with. When Cubs are Camping with Boy Scouts, the Cubs are supposed to have age appropriate activitities, Correct? A Camporee is not Age appropriate, doesnt mean there couldnt be though, just takes planning

[John-in-KC]

Ed,

 

Agree Webelos may camp (except during camporees) with Boy Scouts per conditions set in G2SS. My challenge, as I think Lisa's, is to BEARS.

 

The Age-Appropriate Activities chart, which says "VISIT ONLY" for Webelos at Camporees, is dated 2007. Maybe we can use the internet wayback machine to see when that changed.

 

[evmori]

OGE,

 

If my memory serves me correctly, Webelos use to attend camporees & participate. They would compete against other Webelos dens, not Boy Scouts. To me, this was a great selling point for Troops.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[MarkS]

Can a camporee also be a resident overnight camping program operating under BSA National Camping School-trained leadership and managed by the council or not?

 

What a tangled web the BSA has weaved with their G2SS. It says Webelos can participate in a resident overnight camping program operating under BSA National Camping School-trained leadership and managed by the council, it encourages Webelos den-troop activities, and it says Webelos can only visit camporees. It seems to me that a "camporee" put together by a district or council where there are separate activities for the Boy Scout Patrols and the Webelos Dens follows all three of these policies (yeah, I know the G2SS is a guide but these passages are in bold).

 

I'm going to have to ask the guy who ran our last camporee this question.

 

Mark

 

P.S. Let's strive to take the word "observe" out of all our activities. Observation kills the program.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[Lisabob]

Agreed re: your last comment Mark! We are talking about 9-10-11 year old boys here. About the last thing they'll find exciting is to watch a bunch of other boys do fun things all day, while they themselves are kept at arms length as onlookers. How dull!

 

Now, there may be ways to make that more interesting. Especially if the webelos boys know the boy scouts as friends, schoolmates, etc.. But that's not what I saw happen when our guys were webelos. They did not know these boy scouts personally and had little interest in following them around to merely **watch** all day long. (For that matter, I doubt the boy scouts were all that keen on being followed around by a bunch of "little kids" who were not part of their group, either.)

[John-in-KC]

Mark,

 

I rather doubt your Camporee Director, PD, and area heads are to a person National Camp School trained/current.

 

That comment is talking to Webelos Camp or Scout Camp or even Cub Day Camp.

[Herms]

I would have to disagree with the premise that Webelos cannot participate LIKE a troop at a camporee, however should they compete AGAINST at troop, no.

 

Instead of just working with them at a Den meeting, what better time to test their knowledge and/or put their new learned skills to use than at a camporee!

 

My nephew, as a Webelo could out tie or lash any Boy Scout I have ever ran in to. At a winter campout he was Webelo Den was the ONLY group to get a fire started. My oldest boys Webelo Den could also start fires faster than many Patrols.

 

And they HAVE started to learn SOME of the Boy Scout skills you see at camporees? Compare the following advancement requirements:

 

Tenderfoot

"1. Present yourself to your leader, properly dressed, before going on an overnight camping trip. Show the camping gear you will use. Show the right way to pack and carry it."

 

***Outdoorsman Activity Badge

"1. Present yourself to your Webelos den leader, properly dressed, as you would be for an overnight campout. Show the camping gear you will use. Show the right way to pack and carry it."

 

Tenderfoot

"2. Spend at least one night on a patrol or troop campout. Sleep in a tent you have helped pitch."

 

***Outdoorsman Activity Badge

"4. With your parent or guardian, camp overnight with a Boy Scout troop. Sleep in a tent that you have helped pitch."

 

Tenderfoot

"3. On the campout, assist in preparing and cooking one of your patrol's meals. Tell why it is important for each patrol member to share in meal preparation and cleanup, and explain the importance of eating together."

 

***Outdoorsman Activity Badge

"8. With your accompanying adult on a campout or outdoor activity, assist in preparing, cooking, and cleanup for one of your den's meals. Tell why it is important for each den member to share in meal preparation and cleanup, and explain the importance of eating together."

 

Tenderfoot

"4. a. Demonstrate how to whip and fuse the ends of a rope.

b. Demonstrate you know how to tie the following knots and tell what their uses are: two half hitches and the taut-line

hitch."

 

***Outdoorsman Activity Badge

"10. Demonstrate how to whip and fuse the ends of a rope.

11. Demonstrate setting up a tent or dining fly using two half hitches and a taut-line hitch. Show ho to tie a square knot and explain how it is used."

 

Tenderfoot

"5. Explain the rules of safe hiking, both on the highway and cross-country, during the day and at night. Explain what to do if you are lost."

 

***Outdoorsman Activity Badge

"9. Discuss with your Webelos den leader the things that you need to take on a hike. Go on one 3-mile hike with your Webelos den or a Boy Scout troop."

 

Second Class

"2. d. Use the tools listed in requirement 2c to prepare tinder, kindling, and fuel for a cooking fire."

 

***Outdoorsman Activity Badge

"7. Discuss with your Webelos den leader the rules of outdoor fire safety. Using these rules, show how to build a safe fire and put it out."

 

Tenderfoot

12. a. Demonstrate how to care for someone who is choking.

b. Show first aid for the following:

- Simple cuts and scrapes

- Blisters on the hand and foot

- Minor (thermal/heat) burns or scalds (superficial, or first degree)

- Bites and stings of insects and ticks

- Venomous snakebite

- Nosebleed

- Frostbite and sunburn.

Second Class

"6. a. Show what to do for "hurry" cases of stopped breathing, serious bleeding, and ingested poisoning.

b. Prepare a personal first aid kit to take with you on a hike.

c. Demonstrate first aid for the following:

- Object in the eye

- Bite of a suspected rabid animal

- Puncture wounds from a splinter, nail, and fishhook

- Serious burns (partial thickness, or second degree)

- Heat exhaustion

- Shock

- Heatstroke, dehydration, hypothermia, and hyperventilation

 

***Readyman Activity Badge

4. Demonstrate the Heimlich maneuver and tell when it is used.

5. Show what to do for these "hurry cases":

- Serious bleeding

- Stopped breathing

- Internal poisoning

- Heart attack

6. Show how to treat shock.

7. Show first aid for the following:

- Cuts and scratches

- Burns and scalds

- Choking

- Blisters on the hand and foot

- Tick bites

- Bites and stings of insects other than ticks

- Poisonous snakebite

- Nosebleed

- Frostbite

- Sunburn

 

And the parallels go on

 

 

[FScouter]

Herms' post about parallels would fit in nicely with the other threads about how best to prepare Webelos to transition to Boy Scouts. Just do the Webelos program.

[evmori]

That was enlightening!