Mega-Troops

[Eagle732]

Mega Troops

The Mega-Troop. This unit has maybe 100 scouts or more, lots of parents willing to help, lots of recourses, they send multiple crews to high adventure camps each year and have plenty of leaders to oversee program. This is all good but what about the Mini-Troop nearby? This unit has few scouts, maybe a dozen or less, has a hard time getting the minimum two adults to go camping, has few resources, and is one or two key people away from folding.

Baden-Powell suggested that a troop of about 30 is optimum, with four patrols of 6 to 8 scouts each. With this in mind Id like to pose a few questions:

Is the Mega-Troop good or bad for Scouting and more importantly the individual scouts?

If not then what should be done and by who?

 

[GernBlansten]

If I were the UC in that situation, I'd be inclined to ask some questions of the leadership of the mega-troop. Is everyone here happy with the size of this unit? If not, would they consider transfering to the smaller unit? If everyone in the mega-troop is happy, then I don't see any problem with the mega-unit. But sometimes people don't know there are other options available.

 

Personally, I would find the mega-unit to be a bit too much to handle. Our unit went over 50 scouts last year and it really changed the dynamics of the unit, some for the good, some not so good.

[Gold Winger]

A mini-troop is not a good thing because there the numbers are so small that if a few Scouts can't go on an outing, it becomes senseless to go.

 

A big, big troop can overwhelm a boy's ability to lead but with help and guidance it can work well. The first good thing is the ability to have enough boys so that different things can happen on the same weekend. Fishing weekend for the young boys and a 30 mile hike for the older boys. Maybe have the hike end up where the fishing is happening so the younger boys can say "wow!" Different patrols with different interests: hiking, canoeing, primitive camping.

 

The danger with any troop is that the adults take over and run things.

 

 

[anarchist]

Eagle732,

 

this one is simple...(sorta) There is nothing "bad" about a mega troop. It should be pretty evident that they are doing "enough things right" that a bunch of families want to take part in the "good times".

 

The smaller troop might have enough "issues" that negativily influence scouts or parents to select the mega troop or it might just be struggling and most folks want to go where things are already working well.

 

How can a program that is "jumping" and seemingly offering a rewarding program for 100 boys be considered "bad"??? I know I would not be comfortable there but it would not be my job or anyone elses job to change that program. keep in mind that scouting is (by design) first and foremost a patrol centric activity and the troop is just a gathering of patrols so in theory it should not matter if you have three or thirty patrols. ( though I think 30-40 scouts is darn near perfect)

 

On the other side the small troop might need the help of the district or council. It might be that they simply need to set a goal and build a program to attract more scouts...after all "little" is good for lots of us. If they do not realize they have a problem, perhaps they don't really have a problem and are happy with the basic situation and then, once again, they would be one ones whose business it is or would be to make changes, if neeed.

 

If they feel there is a problem with the small troop they need to get with the parents and scouts to delve into the matter in an honest manner. District might be able to help, heck even a few cups of coffee with the leaders and shakers of the mega troop might be in order to get a feel for what that unit feels it is doing right and what it could be doing to do better. You would be surprised how many successful troops would love to give a struggling neighbor a hand up...

 

AS a side note and example I would submit that in our council recently we had an eleven boy patrol (part of a ten patrol mega troop) all earn their Eagles. Gotta be doing something right, don't you think?!

 

Unfortunately sometimes troops can not be saved, sometimes they just don't have the right group of scouts and families to make a "going" troop and lasting program.

 

Sometimes troops have serious up and down periods when strong scouting families age out and leave and are followed by less than committed or experienced families who think the Scouting programs run themselves...if the troop can last long enough for a new cycle of "strong" families they might survive-or not. But if anything needs to be changed it is the small troop that needs to change and not the mega troop.

 

whether it is leadership, training or program offerings the smaller troop needs to determine it's desired set of goals and find a plan to execute...but it would not be at the expense of the mega troop needing to change.

[John-in-KC]

IF a mega-troop works to provide the leadship opportunities of a smaller (35-50 Scouts) Troop, then I'm ok with it.

 

I can see a legitimate need for multiple ASPLs, QMs, Scribes and perhaps even the OATR. Sooner or later, more kids means more work for the incumbent. Certainly this is true for the QM, who at 100 Scouts is managing as many as 13 patrol boxes, 50 tents, heaven knows how many awnings...

 

If the unit is adult-run or is not providing the resources, that's a different story altogether.

[Beavah]

Yah, I've known a few very successful mega-troops, eh? They take the right sort of SM, who likes bein' CEO of that kind of operation.

 

Goods and bads, like everything. They tend to be more adult-run than average, or perhaps "adult-structured." Not in the small stuff like meal plannin', but in da big stuff like communication and outing planning and decisionmaking. They never see it themselves, though! Lots of activities, lots of opportunities, generally good parent relations and such.

 

They can often create real LNT problems, or just have a hard time findin' places to camp as a unit.

 

They do tend to wipe out nearby small troops.

 

Most importantly, they do tend to shrink dramatically when da one SM who could manage the "corporation" dies or retires.

 

So while kids have can have a great Scoutin' experience in a mega-troop, in the long run, I've long felt they hurt Scouting. When a big troop eats the small fish, and then shrinks, you're left with only one unit servin' kids where yeh used to have 3. Takes a lot more effort to start a new unit fresh than it does to keep an old one goin'.

 

Beavah

 

[GernBlansten]

Beavah, I think you are referring to the Walmart effect.

You have a small town with many locally owned an operated stores. Each has their own flavor and idosyncracies. Some do great, others struggle. But there's a balance.

Then Walmart builds a big box superstore on the edge of town. All the local guys starve to death and shut their doors. Walmart becomes the only game in town. Can't compete with them.

Sure some try, but in the end, everybody still shops at Walmart.

[Horizon]

I was a member of a mega-troop, and now am SM of a troop of 40+ boys on the rolls.

 

The Mega Troop:

- SPL and his staff camped as a separate patrol. There were plenty of real PORs in the mega-troop: e.g. 2 boys serving as Chaplain, A quartermaster with 2 assistants, ASPLs with specific roles of responsibility, etc. The SPL would pull from all patrols to keep from diluting one. As I recall the SPL's staff held at least 10 boys.

- We had 8-10 patrols of 8-14 boys in each. We followed BP camping (300 feet), and with our size you could get as far away from the "men" as you wanted to. The Scoutmaster would hike at least a mile going from patrol site to patrol site during campouts!

- When we went to summer camp, we took over 3/4 of the camp. This probably reduced some of the contact that I would have had normally with other troops.

- That many boys meant a LOT of good adult volunteers available at all times. Looking back, the SM had a deep reservoir of talent to draw on, something that I struggle with at my current troop.

 

There is a place for all of this. Where I am now we have a troop that limits how many boys they will accept, to keep to a certain number. That type of exclusion bothers me, and I have stated that I will take ANY boy into my troop who wants to join, and that we will find room for him.

 

If my troop grows to a mega-troop, then I must be doing something right. If I can not get boys to join, then I must be doing something wrong. If I choose to slow down the recruiting at times to keep things running as smoothly as possible, that is fine too.

[Eagle732]

Walmart effect, that discribes what I'm seeing in our district. Three or four Mega Troops while many others struggle. If the smaller units fold then I would think many boys would miss out on Scouting if the parents are not willing to travel. My unit does OK but I see others just getting by. Meanwhile the CC of one Mega Troop tells me they recruited almost 30 scouts this year and thier meeting hall isn't big enough anymore! Seems like the DC should be thinking of starting new units in these areas.

[Gold Winger]

Starting new units isn't as easy as it sounds. You don't just say, "Hey, let's start a troop!" like it was a Judy Garland movie.

 

First a charter org has to be found. Then a committee needs to be formed and then prospective Scouts must be recruited before a charter can be grantes.

 

A big problem can be getting the Scouts to join a new unit instead of an established one that is already having fun.

[Stosh]

And the real kicker is... if one can't form a new troop because the boys are all having too much fun at the established troop, what's the purpose of the new troop? So often we are so anti-megatroops that we forget that maybe if the boys are having fun the BSA/BP recommened sizes aren't the issue.

 

Stosh

[Eagledad]

>>So often we are so anti-megatroops that we forget that maybe if the boys are having fun the BSA/BP recommened sizes aren't the issue.

[Eagle732]

GW, I'm well aware of what it takes to start a new unit. Last year I helped start a new pack in our area after the previous pack struggled with no help from District for years. We have organizations that are asking to charter new units but we don't have enough boys in the area to justify it. Besides that's the DE's job. Anyway I think it's a shame that good units struggle, out resourced by the Mega Units, but hey maybe it's just me!

[Eagle732]

Also, I just posed the question after the discussion with Mega Troop's CC about recruiting 30 scouts. I'm not against Mega Troops, my son visited the Mega Troop I referred to two years ago but he decided to go with the local troop even though no other Webelos from his den went with him. I was proud of him for making the choice he felt was right for him without bowing to peer pressure and going with the rest to the Mega Troop.

[Kudu]

So often we are so anti-megatroops that we forget that maybe if the boys are having fun the BSA/BP recommended sizes aren't the issue.

 

The issue to B-P is that boys can have a specific form of "fun" he would call "Scouting:" An outdoor game in widely separated Patrols.

 

It is interesting that Horizon writes that even in a "Mega-Troop" it is possible to practice Scouting in a manner that Baden-Powell would recognize as the Patrol System:

 

- We had 8-10 patrols of 8-14 boys in each. We followed BP camping (300 feet), and with our size you could get as far away from the "men" as you wanted to. The Scoutmaster would hike at least a mile going from patrol site to patrol site during campouts!

 

Horizon, would you give us more details here or in the "300 Feet Apart" thread as to how you could give actual BP camping such a priority in a Mega-Troop?

 

Thanks!

 

Kudu